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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Pre-Trib vs. Post-Trib: Pls Include Scripture

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Jacob19
Member



Joined: 2006/3/9
Posts: 74


 Re:

I think I am post-trib only because the modern church is pre... and since they are wrong about everything else I kind of just went that way. lol

 2007/3/23 23:52Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Concerning the rapture, does it occur before or after the First Resurrection?

1 Thess. 4
13But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Revelation 20
4Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

If the First Resurrection occurs in Revelation 20, then why do some 'expositors' see a 'rapture' in Revelation 4?

 2007/3/26 11:40Profile
Stampe
Member



Joined: 2007/3/20
Posts: 12
Copenhagen/Denmark

 Re:

Dear JaySaved,
I have been wondering about that one as well! The scripture clearly teaches that the rapture and the first resurrection takes place at the same time, and this is a big problem for a pre-trib rapture.

If the rapture is to occur before the tribulation, we have to have a resurrection before the first resurrection! Hmmmm... :-?

God bless,

Stampe


_________________
Carsten Stampe Jorgensen

 2007/3/27 9:53Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I think I am post-trib only because the modern church is pre... and since they are wrong about everything else I kind of just went that way. lol



Funny in a sad way, because its true. This scripture comes to mind, many here would do well to understand its implications to our times.

Amos 5
18 Woe to you who long
for the day of the LORD!
Why do you long for the day of the LORD ?
That day will be darkness, not light.
19 It will be as though a man fled from a lion
only to meet a bear,
as though he entered his house
and rested his hand on the wall
only to have a snake bite him.

20 Will not the day of the LORD be darkness, not light—
pitch-dark, without a ray of brightness?

21 "I hate, I despise your religious feasts;
I cannot stand your assemblies.

22 Even though you bring me burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept them.
Though you bring choice fellowship offerings, [b]
I will have no regard for them.

23 Away with the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.

24 But let justice roll on like a river,
righteousness like a never-failing stream!

 2007/3/27 10:33
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

I am perplexed,how do you hope interpret scripture based on your disgust of the church?What about the truth the church does stand for[TRINITY,COMMUNINION,BAPTISM,WORSHIP].We are all lopsided to a degree.We all deserately need each other. Nobody has the complete picture.I must have the rest of the body to function.The corinthian church was not cast off like a paper towel.They received the label"carnal".I am upset also with the modern church,but I am unwilling to put a blaket indictment on them.Most every church has a remnant of believers in it.This remnant is awesome! they love the Lord and they belong to Him.So if I lothe "the churches" am I loatheing Jesus?Again I have many,many objections to the church but to say "the churches are bad" In my opinion I have contiously[or not]said"Jesus is bad"..............Also I pesonally dont see how ascribing order or precident to "the first resurection" changes anything.you seem to clump people together to try and make your position more plausable.Does reconciling scripure make an individual a part of a group?Ex;-those dumb mindless rapure second rate people [probably read left behind books]. Its almost like the raprure is something bad in your mind? is this correct?....David

 2007/3/27 11:55Profile









 Re:

psalm 1... who are you adressing?

In Christ - Jim

 2007/3/27 12:05
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

the last 4 "posters" seem to be "hi fiveing theemselves into next week".Just wanted to add my 2 cents. prob too stong as usual. will promise to do better......David

 2007/3/27 12:38Profile









 Re:

psalm 1...

Cyber high-fives! That put a smile on my face.

In response I do love the church and the lost, even the lukewarm Church. I hate babylon, the false church. I agree there is a remnant in many places, as it would be arrogant to state otherwise.

Quote:
So if I lothe "the churches" am I loatheing Jesus?



If I loathe the JW kingdom Halls or what the Mormons teach, am I loathing Jesus? Please think about that in response to your question and in light to my further comments on what the Church is and is not.

Quote:
I am unwilling to put a blanket indictment on them



If you were alive in the prophet Jeremiahs day would you have said this upon hearing a blanket inditement against the religous sytem of his time that claimed to be from God? Of course there is a remnant, there always is...

Quote:
Again I have many,many objections to the church but to say "the churches are bad" In my opinion I have contiously[or not]said"Jesus is bad"..............



I think you are confusing the man made system or something that has the letters c-h-u-r-c-h on it with Christs bride. I truly love the Church, Christs true Church, just not the imposter harlot that calls herself "the church". I apologize for my lack of clarity if that was part of the problem. I usually try to better differientiate between the Church (Christs bride) and the System (North American Evangelical Christianity) when i write.

in Christ - Jim

 2007/3/27 12:42
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

I agree........David

 2007/3/27 12:54Profile









 Re:

jimdiedtosin said that Amos said

Quote:
Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD ? That day will be darkness, not light.... I hate, I despise your religious feasts; I cannot stand your assemblies... Away with the noise of your songs! I will not listen to the music of your harps.



Brings to mind the first hippy-child who came skipping and laughing to God's alter, flowers in his hair, with an offering of grain and daffodils; "me and God are [i]groovy[/i] maaannnn..."

Following slowly behind him, a man with tears streaming from his downcast eyes reassuringly stroked a beautiful, white, baby lamb. As he approchahed the alter, he spoke under a whisper, "Oh, LORD! My family and I are worthy of death for the sins we've committed against you. I beg of you, please take the blood, flesh, and life of this Lamb in lieu of us."

What's your church like?

 2007/3/27 14:21





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