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 Re:

Quote:
The tribulation or "the time of Jacob's Trouble" is three and a half yrs long and is the second half of Daniel's Seventh wk.The first half I believe is called the "beginning of sorrows".



3.5 Beginning of Sorrows
3.5 Jacobs Trouble

How do you divide the week into those two thoughts?? How do you know that a half of the week is sorrows and the other is trouble??

 2007/3/22 18:55









 Re:

Quote:
So Elijah must [b]come again[/b],we can see this fulfilled in the two witness ministry of Revelations.

Actually in Mal 4:5 it speaks of Elijah by name coming, in Revelation it just says "Two witnesses", there is no name given, we can't go with wishful thinking, we need to go with facts.

I believed in all that your trying to say here, but I stopped believing what was being fed to me in Church and started reading this stuff for myself and truly I don't know where these preachers get thier conclusions.

 2007/3/22 19:03
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1547


 Re:

Hi,
To the best of my understanding below is a prophecy regarding the tribulation period.At the end its described as the time of Jacob's Trouble.

It could well mean the 7yr period but the trouble only starts after the abomination of desolations in the middle of the wk which is 3 and half yrs.The tribulation also happens straight after 1260days of the two witnesses.

Jer 30:4 ¶ And these [are] the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.

Jer 30:5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.

Jer 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day [is] great, so that none [is] like it: it [is] even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

As for sorrows part I will look it up again for you but it comes from the sermon on the mount Matthew 24.8.I heard it called that somewhere but off hand I cant remember,let me research it again and come back to you,
Rgds Staff

 2007/3/22 19:16Profile
Stampe
Member



Joined: 2007/3/20
Posts: 12
Copenhagen/Denmark

 Re:

Dear Staff,
Well, you are right in that the believer will be in the light, and the unbeliever will in the dark. But according to Jesus there will be some of His servants who will be ready, awake and watching, and some who will not. The evil servants who are not expecting His coming will be appointed their portion with the hypocrites (Read Matt. 24:42-51) It also says in Matt. 25:10 that those who were ready, who had oil in their lamps (whose light was shining) went in with Him to the marriage, but the foolish virgins who did not have oil in their lamps was left out...

I like your emphasis on looking for His coming. It is a very important one, but when Jesus in Matthew 24:32 said this about His coming:

[i][b]"So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."[/b][/i]

...He actually included the great tribulation spoken of in verse 21. The great tribulation is part of "all these things" that they were to see before He came. So actually, the reason why one should even be ready and expect the time of tribulation which Jesus spoke of, is even because one is looking for His coming...

Isn't that also what the disciples asked Jesus? Didn't they ask Him for the signs of His coming?

God bless,

Stampe


_________________
Carsten Stampe Jorgensen

 2007/3/22 19:20Profile
staff
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Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1547


 Re:

Hi Stampe,
I argree with what you're saying regarding all these things and that the tribulation is part of it and that matthew 24.32 is about the second coming after the tribulation.You are right this coming is definitely post trib in my opinion.But after the rapture.
However this still doesnt add up with expecting Jesus to come at any time(immenant)as all of these events will have to have happened and can only be reconciled with having a rapture prior this time.
As far as the virgins waiting I think the Oil represents the Holy Spirit.You cannot enter without having been born of the Spirit.
Rgds Staff

 2007/3/22 19:45Profile









 Re:

Compliments said

Quote:
I believed in all that your trying to say here, but I stopped believing what was being fed to me in Church and started reading this stuff for myself and truly I don't know where these preachers get thier conclusions.



Gasp! You're reading the Bible apart from the Left Behind series? Hehe.

 2007/3/22 19:58
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1547


 Re:

Hi,
Altough they are not mentioned by name,one of them has all the characteristics of The ministry of Elijah especially the lenght of his ministry being 3and A half yrs and being able to withhold the rain.
Their is another scripture in the new testament regarding Elijah coming again:

t 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.
Do you see what Jesus Said he shall come first but he already has come.One is in the future and one is in the past.As far as I can gather it is generally accepted that Elijah will come again.
I find the blue letter bible handy [url=www.blueletterbible.org]www.blueletterbible.org[/url],
get your scripture verse and you can get many useful audio and text commentaries,
Rgds
Staff

 2007/3/22 20:02Profile









 Re:

Matthew 11:7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. 10 [b]For this is he[/b], of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.[b]14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.[/b]15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

I do not see 2 comings but the one.

 2007/3/22 20:53
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1547


 Re:

Hi Compliments,
Yes I aggree with you in the scripture you qouted below mentions only one coming but in the scripture I qouted 2comings are mentioned.The fact that it is not mentioned below in Matthew 11.7 does not nullify what Jesus said about the ministry of Elijah in Matthew 17.11.If we used that criteria for scripture we would have nullify alot of prophecy!

....................................................
Matthew 11:7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? 8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses. 9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet. 10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hea

..................................................
Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
..................................................
This was said after his imprisonment and death yet he was talking about Elijah coming in the future
Rgds Staff

 2007/3/23 19:54Profile
lovegrace
Member



Joined: 2006/8/12
Posts: 313


 Re:

I suggest something quite different from what you've already heard and believe. Just something different.

When you want to figure out the interuptation on the 'two witnesses' in the book of Revelation Ch.11.

Read Ch.11 with Ch.12 & 13. See if you see any parallels. If so, you might have come across an ancient belief. That the fact of the two witnesses are in fact, Jews and Gentiles. That they represent two people groups.

Again, don't take my word from it, just try to see it in Scripture and then if it ultimatly doesn't 'line up' with other Scriptures, please share.

 2007/3/23 20:08Profile





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