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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Pre-Trib vs. Post-Trib: Pls Include Scripture

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psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

I wonder what kind of apology will be made for those saints that died,and never went through the great tribulation?

Will they be punished for escaping?

Surely they were never "purified" <rolleyes> like the tribulation saints.

One can see the folly of thinking anything other than the blood of Jesus makes us worthy.

 2011/9/27 23:03Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, did you notice that the hebrew children were in the furnace heated 7 times hotter that killed some who put them there and they were not burned and did not have the smell of smoke upon them for Jesus was in there with them.

 2011/9/27 23:54Profile









 Re: Psalm 1

Brother I can assure you I do read my new Testament as much as you and conclude the Pretrib view is not taught. Historically the early church never held to this view. As indicated in my previous post the Pretrib rapture is a view developed by Mr. Darby and Mr. Scoffield . Prior to the Mid 1800s the prevailing view of the church was basically what you would call Post Trib. And again this is an invention of western theology. It goes quite nicely with easy believism and prosperity. No cost in following Jesus.

You seem to infer that those in restricted nations that don't believe in a pretrib rapture are believing false doctrine. Let me ask you in gentleness do you understand what the persecuted church is about? Have you read the literature from Voice of the Martyrs or Open Doors? Have you read anything by Richard Wormbrandt such as Tortured for Christ? My point in raising these questions is to say that the persecuted do not hold to a Pre Trib rapture but to a cross that Jesus told them to carry 2000 years ago. Actually we all are called to carry that cross today. Someone, I think it was Bonhoffer, said when Christ bids a man to come to him he bids him to come and die. Bro, you are are called to suffer for Jesus, not sail to heaven on flowery beds of ease.

Psalm I do not know how long you have been on this forum. But there are pretty much a mixed bag here. People hold to different views of the rapture. Do not infer that the pretrib view is only view there is and all other views are false. Also do not assume those who hold to other views are believing false doctrines.

You got the last wotd. I got some persecuted family to pray for. Stay close to Jesus.

Blaine

 2011/9/28 1:49
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3422
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Pre-Trib vs. Post-Trib: Pls Include Scripture

Quote:
psalm1 wrote:
I wonder what he would say to this scripture?;
luke 21,36Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


I could not find a direct quote concerning Luke 21.36 but that is not to say it’s not somewhere in the 347 pages of the book.

There is a whole chapter on “The Wrath of God.” I will type out the concluding 2 paragraphs of this chapter instead of pasting the WHOLE thing!! :) (It is 2 paragraphs, I was the one who separated it for easier reading!)

------------------------------------------

We now can draw certain conclusions. First, God has not destined the believer to the eternal wrath of hell, or separation from Him, but to the glory of eternal salvation. The Word sets these two destinies in opposition to each other on a number of occasions. This is the wrath He promises to keep us from.

Second, His plague wrath is directed against rebels-the disobedient and unbelieving. He can single out the unbelievers and seal the believers.

Third, when He strikes nature, there may be occasions of inconvenience or suffering as a byproduct even for believers, just as the opposite has been true through the ages that He sends His rain on the just and the unjust. Thus, if water is poisoned and the fish die, “nobody” eats the affected fish.

Fourth, the beast and his followers are the target of the plague wrath of God, but Jews and Christian believers are the targets of the wrath of Satan and the beast. So it was in the Egypt of the Exodus that the Hebrews were the focus of Pharaoh’s wrath while Pharaoh was the focus of God’s wrath. So it shall be in the tribulation. Not only is the beast furious at believers then, but the wrath of Satan himself is also directed against them. This is clearly stated for us: “Woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great. . . Then the dragon was angry with woman, and went off to make war on. . . those who. . . bear testimony to Jesus (Rev12:12-17). But just as surely as, the beast and his kingdom and his followers are the target of God’s (temporal) wrath at the time; the first bowl is poured against “the men who bore the mark of the beast” (Rev 16.2), and the fifth bowl is poured “on the throne of the beast” (16.10). Thus, it becomes the great tribulation for the saints because of Satan’s wrath, and it becomes the great tribulation for the beast and his followers because of God’s wrath.

The fullness of God’s ultimate wrath is detailed Revelation 14.9-11: If any one worships the beast. . . .he also shall drink the wine of God’s wrath, poured unmixed into the cup of his anger, and he shall be tormented. . . . for ever.” This is the true wrath of God and we are saved from it. Our life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ who is our life appears, then we also will appear with Him in glory.

~ Last two paragraphs of “The Wrath of God,” The Crucible and the Crown,” page 174-175.


_________________
Lisa

 2011/9/28 5:33Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3422
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Pre-Trib vs. Post-Trib: Pls Include Scripture


The following is from the "Tribulation" chapter:

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In Isaiah, the Lord speaks to His people, Come, my people, enter your chambers, and shut your doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until the wrath is past. For behold, the LORD is coming forth out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, and the earth will disclose the blood shed upon her, and will no more cover her slain (26:20-21). These people did not leave, but simply entered their chambers and hid safely.

In the book of Revelation, this very concept is seen for Israel during the tribulation. Though much of Israel is pursued by the man of sin, a significant number of them are carried on the wings of the great eagle to a place of safety in the wilderness for that period.

How much like the history of Israel before and during the Passover! The Hebrews are safe in their chambers while death is striking the Egyptians. Indeed, as we will consider later in more depth, the whole scene of the Hebrews in Egypt typifies two things that the Scriptures seem to say about the tribulation. As many of the plagues fell on the Egyptians, they did not touch the Hebrews. If God pours out wrath on the Antichrist and his people, He can, indeed, keep it from those whom He has marked as His own. Further, while God was making His wrath felt on Pharaoh and the Egyptians, even so Pharaoh was making the lot of the Hebrews hard.

In the tribulation, we see God punishing the Antichrist, we see the Antichrist pursuing and afflicting the saints. It is not necessarily inconsistent to see some saints paying with their heads for the testimony of Jesus while others are allowed to escape. Thus, he who endures to the end will be saved from the sword and will experience translation.

~ paragraphs 1-4, page 66 of The Crucible and the Crown by Louis Moesta


_________________
Lisa

 2011/9/28 5:40Profile





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