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Joined: 2011/9/22
Posts: 7

 Re: Does it matter??

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matthew 24:4,5

Praise the Lord, it is so good to see brethren seriously considering the Scriptures--especially that which relates to the end times. My friend (brother) asks if it matters if we study these things. I suppose the implication is that our walk with the Lord is a "no fault" experience, wherein our actions do not matter.
Yet, here in Jesus' famous "bread and butter" passage on His returning, He opens the discussion with an admonition to beware, lest we be deceived. Why?
I hope you get the drift, here. Note as well, Christ's opening comments in the very next chapter. In that chapter He says specifically that the Kingdom of Heaven will then (now) be like ten virgins. Don't look for a commentary to give you an interpretation of this parable. Its ramifications are too disturbing for those who are "sleeping." Who are the "virgins"?? (Sorry, that would start a whole new discussion.)
Simply put, Christ says that half of those who are waiting for Him "virgins" --miss out (see 2 Cor. 11:2).
The solution? Paul addresses the issue in the same exact context, in 1 Thes. 5 (following a similar discussion on the rapture in the 4th chapter) --by saying, "Let us not sleep, as do others." (vs. 6).
How shall we accomplish this? By watching and being sober (i.e. serious) about our commitment to Him (second half of the verse).
To answer the question. Yes, definitely, it does make a difference. What you truly value, you watch over, and seek to protect. Since that is your treasure (what you truly value) you spend time watching over it. You might say that it "keeps you awake" at night. :)
Be blessed in Jesus.

 2011/9/24 19:13Profile

Joined: 2011/9/22
Posts: 7

 Re: Replying to "Krispykrittr"

It does seem significant that the above quote does not contain any specific Scripture. It also posits that Scripture that is read is relative, bland, and without specific point(??).
I would like to answer the original question on giving Scriptural basis for a post trib position. Consider Christ's admonition recorded in Matthew 24.

"28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
Matthew 24:28-31

Please try to resist the bland excuse of saying that Christ is addressing only the Jews, and not the Gentiles, as well (I haven't read as 100+ posts, so I don't know if this has yet arisen in the discussion. Forgive, or consider mine, if it hasn't). For if Jesus is here addressing the Jews alone--is He also addressing them, alone, when He gave the Sermon on the Mount? (How about 1 Thes. 2:1-3 which is addressed specifically to a Gentile fellowship?)
Having come this far, allow another serious thought to ponder. It is this-- that a sleeping Church (as Christ warns about in the 25th chapter) allows Antichrist to arise (the exact same context as Paul's comments to Thessalonica, in chapter 2:1-3).

 2011/9/24 19:28Profile

Joined: 2011/9/22
Posts: 7

 Re: Who / What is Antichrist

An excellent posting, especially regarding apostasy in the Church. Obviously, you have spent considerable time studying this subject Bro. JaySaved (like the name, too). Two thoughts:
1) Christ admonishes us to watch. Should this not have a specific object? Yes, there are many antichrists (1 Jn. 2:18) but as there were many saviors (in a sense) before the ultimate Savior, so too, there will be many prototypes before the actual Antichrist, himself, arises.
2) In considering prophecy, I do not see any reference to John's Revelation. When looking forward to the Antichrist, should we not be seriously studying the number one, most detailed, reference on the subject in Holy Writ? If this be so, then we will soon notice that the most detailed portion of John's Apocalypse focuses on those chapters 13-19 --where "the beast" arises, whose side kick (commonly called the false prophet) will issue the Mark of the Beast.
OK. Take a deep breath. I've not noticed this mentioned on the posts (haven't read them all!). Yet my point is this: The mark of the beast points towards a cashless society, does it not? Do we, or do we not, see this coming over the horizon?? Is the Internet not a part of this coming fulfillment (how else could we have universal cashless exchanges, without some kind of electronic infrastructure in place)??
Revelation thirteen is a fascinating topic--and very sobering. Yet, we must acknowledge that the fulfillment of said Scripture requires worship of a particular individual (as in all dictatorial societies)--for such adds unity and structure to the governing body--as well as a focal point for society's affections. As Hitler led the wave of evil, during WWII, so too will Antichrist lead the charge against God Himself, in the coming Tribulation (1 Thes. 2:4, Rev. 13:5).

 2011/9/24 20:07Profile

Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


almost all of scripture points to post. the hebrews were delivered through the red sea,through the wilderness,and through thethe jordan.they were delivered through captivity thtough drought, through apostacy. in escat. daniel told neb. his dream about the icon where neb. was the head of gold. the next chapter has a threat of tribulation a chance of rapture or deliverance from this trib. abeast to bow down to and the hebrew children were delivered through the fire,not from the firey furnace. a few chapters later,daniel was delivered through the lions den. the psalmist said although i walk through the valley of the shadow of death i will fear no evil.i could go on speaking about Jesus who asked the Father to deliver Him from the bitter cup but He endured the cross and the wrath of His Father for us.

 2011/9/25 0:04Profile

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3420
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Pre-Trib vs. Post-Trib: Pls Include Scripture

I am reading is "The Crucible and the Crown: The Church in the Tribulation" by Louis Moesta.

He's right up my alley because he does not attack anyone in the Pre-Trib camp or any camp, he just submits his evidence Biblically. So if you are looking for a good book on the subject, I highly recommend this.

God bless,


 2011/9/25 6:19Profile


Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs---heirs of God and coheirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we also share in his glory.

There has to be a cross BEFORE there can be a crown.


 2011/9/25 11:33

Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494


"I am back and forth on this issue, but as of today in my studies I do not see a literal 1,000 period in which Jesus will reign in Jerusalem exalting the nation of Israel. I do not see a period of time in which Christians in glorified bodies are hanging around people in non-glorified bodies. I believe that the 1,000 year period signifies a long period of time…"

SO, then how do you explain the resurrection of those that had been beheaded for the cause of Christ who reigned with him a thousand years? Revelation 20:4-6 NASB

4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.


Sandra Miller

 2011/9/25 19:08Profile


Welcome BroFrank001.

I was waiting for you to return to continue that "other chpt" about the 10 virgins.

I'd like share with you what I believe on that, and wait for your view.

I believe that there's a period of darkness before the coming of the Bridegroom ... yet - they hear that He's coming.
I believe, most especially since world events have turned as they have, that most believe He is coming - so the call has gone out and most are awake But, we're in the time when those who didn't store up enough oil while there was a time of ease are now asking those who did for some of theirs and you know the answer those other 5 give.

I would like your view and have appreciated your posts to this page. Thank you!

 2011/9/26 23:52

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


"almost all of scripture points to post"

I cannot find even one.

Please show me one outside of Mat 24

 2011/9/27 11:52Profile

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


"The persecuted church does not hold to a pretrib rapture"

This makes no sense whatsoever.We are persecuted for preaching the gospel/following Jesus.

The bridegroom is comming for his bride.See the parable of the 10 virgins.

The 5 that were "locked out" are the ones left behind.

Here they are in heaven;
Rev 7; 9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

...........13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

It is prophesied in rev that the antichrist kills all the christians left behind that fail to worship him or take the mark;
Rev 13;7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

All thew saints die during the trib.So how can anyone possibly hold the position of a post trib rapture?

Look closely at this passage;

Rev13;16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.



Now how in the world do some people see a "OVERCOMMING" church in this?

Post trib has us to believe the "true church" is right in the middle of all this antichrist rule,which it is,with their necks on the chopping block.
Obviously the one left behind are martyred,and are pictured in rev. before the throne.

Note that their robes were "dirty" but washed in the blood.

The filth of their failure as watchmen(5 foolish virgins),which caused their being left behind,is now washed at martyrdom

 2011/9/27 12:28Profile

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