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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Any Brother who says he is without Sin is a What?

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philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Who among say you have no sin? Tell me why God disciplines those who are His sons.



why did He discipline His Son?

edit: after walking the dog!

This thread came to mind again and I decided to add a little more. God does discipline his sons. I don't want you think otherwise but what is the purpose of that discipline?

We need to be careful that we don't drift into mysticism where God disciplines to deal with sin. God can punish for sin but he can also forgive. We must not think that sin is treated by suffering of any kind. That is the notion that lead the mystics into self-flagelation and hairshirts. They reasoned that their suffering would have some effect on their sin. We have to make sure that however we see God's disciplines we do not think that discipline in any way deals with the sin.

Discipline deals with the person and it is good to see the word 'disciple' is part of discipline. The key thing about a disciple is that he was in a continuing relationship with a master.

Discipline deals with character and development. This is necessary even in the one man who could say 'I am without sin' it was required that he 'learned obedience' by the things that he suffered. We too must 'learn obedience'.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/27 2:49Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
We need to be careful that we don't drift into mysticism where God disciplines to deal with sin.



Psalm 119:

71 It is good for me that I have been afflicted,
That I may learn Your statutes.
72 The law of Your mouth is better to me
Than thousands of coins of gold and silver.
73 Your hands have made me and fashioned me;
Give me understanding, that I may learn Your commandments.
74 Those who fear You will be glad when they see me,
Because I have hoped in Your word.
75 I know, O LORD, that Your judgments are right,
And that in faithfulness You have afflicted me.

Did God allow this man to drift into mysticism?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/27 6:04Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Did God allow this man to drift into mysticism?


There is no classical mysticism in the Bible.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/27 6:09Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Job 36:

7 He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous;
But they are on the throne with kings,
For He has seated them forever,
And they are exalted.
8 And if they are bound in fetters,
Held in the cords of affliction,
9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions—
That they have acted defiantly.
10 He also opens their ear to instruction,
And commands that they turn from iniquity.
11 If they obey and serve Him,
They shall spend their days in prosperity,
And their years in pleasures.
12 But if they do not obey,
They shall perish by the sword,
And they shall die without knowledge.
13 “But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath;
They do not cry for help when He binds them.
14 They die in youth,
And their life ends among the perverted persons.

Here is another example given to us in Scripture about why God disciplines those that are His...

Do you see that God speaks to those so that they are not left to their own imaginations?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/27 6:26Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
rookie on 2007/3/27 11:26:34
Do you see that God speaks to those so that they are not left to their own imaginations?


Of course. Do you see that God disciplines his children irrespective of whether they have sinned or not? “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;” (Heb 5:8 KJVS)Was God's disciplining of His Son corrective?
Was it punitive?
Was it to deal with sin?


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/27 6:45Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
Was God's disciplining of His Son corrective?



Of course not...He was born of the Spirit and not the seed of Adam...

This is not a compatible parrallel with our nature is it?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/27 16:57Profile
rookie
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Posts: 4821
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 Re:

Brother Ron...

Job 36
9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions—
That they have acted defiantly.
10 He also opens their ear to instruction,
And commands that they turn from iniquity.

Now this is the condition we find ourselves in.

This Scripture was true for the OT saints. God spoke to them. It this precept also available to the NT saints?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/27 17:00Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brothers Ron, Paul, Robert, and Phillip

Paul taught...

Rom. 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Rom. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.

Rom. 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

According to Scripture this is our inheritance according to the first man Adam. All are subjected to this futility.

So then when one is born from above...what happens then?

Gal. 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.

The only person that ever walked 100% of the time with the Spirit was Jesus Christ.

So what has God predetermined for us who turn toward Him?

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Our High Priest is able. The question is, are we willing to grow in understanding and wisdom which delivers us from the corruption of this body?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/28 1:01Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
[u]rookie on 2007/3/27 21:57:48[/u]
Of course not...He was born of the Spirit and not the seed of Adam...

This is not a compatible parrallel with our nature is it?


So you can see that discipline is not necessarily linked with sin.

Is not regeneration being 'born of the Spirit'. Is regeneration a birth, ie a new beginning or is it a modification in which something is added to what is already there?

We are in Christ or in Adam, the two conditions are mutually exclusive.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/3/28 4:23Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
Is not regeneration being 'born of the Spirit'. Is regeneration a birth, ie a new beginning or is it a modification in which something is added to what is already there?



When I spoke of Christ being born of the Spirit, I was refering to the virgin birth.

Does Scripture teach that Christ was subjected to the corruption that the decendents of Adam are subjected to in original sin?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/3/29 0:24Profile





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