Poster | Thread | rookie Member

Joined: 2003/6/3 Posts: 4821 Savannah TN
| Re: | | Summary: In the past, Beijing has spent heavily on adding submarines, jet fighters and other high-tech weapons to its arsenal, which despite its size, lags well behind those of other major nations. However, Jiang said the $44.94 billion military budget would mainly be spent on boosting wages and living allowances for members of the armed forces and on upgrading armaments to enhance the militarys ability to conduct defensive operations. America
Still leading by example
U.S. Military expenditures are approximately twelve times that of the current Chinese military expenditure.
The USA, responsible for about 80 per cent of the increase in 2005, is the principal determinant of the current world trend, and its military expenditure now accounts for ALMOST HALF of the world total
Dan. 11:38 But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. 39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.
What is the evidence of the path that the United States now walks?
In Christ Jeff _________________ Jeff Marshalek
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| 2007/3/7 4:41 | Profile | Compton Member

Joined: 2005/2/24 Posts: 2732
| Re: | | Quote:
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.
I am more and more coming to feel that this is as important to the good news of the Gospel as is our personal redemption. How grevious if we could know our good God and yet still be required to live under the power of this world. (I am talking about the principalities...not the civil authorities.) Praise God, Jesus said "Be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world..." and John recorded "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ..." Yet it is a sad mystery much of history shows Christendom being overcome with the Gospel of this world.
This world has it's kingdom Gospel too. "Ceasars" face is on all it's coins, mile markers, monuments, battle banners and even religions. The world's Gospel is a thesis that permeates all the actions of men, but the Gospel Christ brings is antithesis that interpenetrates the world, like rays of light. This light is our distinction from the darkness all men live in, and though it may provoke contempt, and even death, this distinction, which is both cultural and cosmic, is vital to the word of our testimony. The church is a proclamation of the good news that the Kingdom of God is open to those who seek. The truth will set a man free..again not to outwardly anarchism against all peacable and decent civil law, but inwardly from the hidden sway of the evil one. I run in the path of your commands, for you have set my heart free.
Isaiah saw a righteous government that would be upon the shoulders of the Messiah. The earliest Christian believed in this government and proclaimed it to the world. No wonder the Roman government persecuted the church, for while Christians could be amiable ambassadors, their ultimate loyalty was with another King.
They did not overcome the evil one according to the principles of this world but by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Apparently being a witness to the light could be dangerous business!
Centuries later many of us believe that the spirit of anti-christ will become manifest as a man who will rule over nations. Will Christians loyal to these nations still dutifully go to war for him?
And yet the spirit of anti-christ is already in the world. What implications could this have for those of us whose patriotism shakes hands with our worship? Like Neil, I find that these questions reveal a conflict in my American orthodoxy. In times past, when America had a more pronounced 'Judeo-Christian' culture, we believed we could harmonize the two kingdoms, but it may be that presently the dissonance grows so great that we will be forced to finally choose one kingdom over the other.
Just discussing these things with hope brethren,
MC _________________ Mike Compton
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| 2007/3/7 13:31 | Profile |
| Re: | | Would someone please answer the question that I asked?
Was it wrong for good people (many who were born again Christians) to use military might to defeat the Nazis? Whether or not it was a miracle of God that Nazi Germany was defeated is not the issue... was it wrong to use military might to defeat them, and put a stop to the atrosities?
I ask this question everytime this topic comes up, and not [b]one[/b] time has anyone who believes we should never use physical force under any circumstances answered me. The question either goes ignored or they beat around the bush.
It's a simple yes or no question.
Krispy |
| 2007/3/7 14:23 | | philologos Member

Joined: 2003/7/18 Posts: 6566 Reading, UK
| Re: | | Quote:
Would someone please answer the question that I asked?
The reason I have not provided an answer to the question is that I think it starts from a false premise. The question is not "Was it wrong for good people (many who were born again Christians) to use military might to defeat the Nazis?" but rather "Would it be wrong for ME to use military might to defeat the Nazis?"
No one can answer that question for ME, and I cannot ask it of another. Let each be persuaded in his own mind and give freedom of conscience to another's conscience too.
The other unanswered question is "Would Jesus have gone to war against the Nazis?" _________________ Ron Bailey
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| 2007/3/7 14:29 | Profile |
| Re: | | Quote:
The other unanswered question is "Would Jesus have gone to war against the Nazis?"
I believe He did... I believe God brought His wrath down on the Nazi's for the treatment of the Jews, while at the same time using that horrible situation to accomplish His will for the end times. Chiefly bringing the Jews back into the land.
The Nazi's werent the first people to mistreat and spit upon the Jews, only to be utterly destroyed... I seem to remember Egyptians, Babylonians... etc.
People who think that God is not capable of war should read Psalm 18. (Thats not directed at you, Philologos)
Krispy |
| 2007/3/7 14:44 | | vico Member

Joined: 2005/5/25 Posts: 258
| Re: | | I think we could look at this from another perspective. Can God be glorified in sin? now lets for a moment say that war is wrong, and that Christians should not take up arms against the enemies of our country. Could God still use this sin for His glory and to accomplish His will? |
| 2007/3/7 15:30 | Profile |
| Re: | | Not sure you can ever say war is sin, or war is not sin anymore than you can say sex is sin, or sex is not sin.
In marriage, sex is not sin. Outside of marriage, sex is sin. So it would depend on the situation under which war was started.
But no one can make a blanket statement that all war is sin, because if you do... you say God is a sinner.
Consider:
[i]2Sa 22:35 He teacheth my hands to war; so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.
Psa 18:34 He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.
Psa 144:1 A Psalm of David. Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight...[/i]
Also consider the book of Joshua as the children of Israel conquered the land that God promised their fathers. Over and over again God fights for them an destroys their enemies.
God is a God of love, mercy, salvation... but God is also a God of war. People (even believers on this website) want to forget that God is a God of judgement and punishment. There are many dimensions to God... but people only want to believe in the "teddy bear" God... the God of children's Bibles.
Vico... I understand your question, but when I hear you say [i]"now lets for a moment say that war is wrong"[/i] ... I hear "lets say for a moment that God is a sinner, or God can do something wrong". I just want to caution you to not do that.
Krispy
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| 2007/3/7 15:42 | | Ruach34 Member

Joined: 2006/2/7 Posts: 296 Beijing
| Re: | | I agree with your statement, philologos. Let each one be persuaded in his own mind. I have not read this whole forum and will, but wanted to interject here and say this has been my struggle as I am in the military. No, I have not been in war, yet. But, seeing many guys come back from the war, I see nothing good in it. They are full of anger, nightmares and run so ragged, physically, emotionally and spiritually. they are led into war by machines made to destroy and destroy well and quickly. We show off these machines as 'strength' and 'might.' "Not by power, or by might, but by my Spirit, says the Lord." I have had a couple visions, I believe from the Lord, concerning killing...and through the past three years have been led to pursue and apply for chaplaincy. there is much more peace within me to lay down the weapon of destruction and carry the weapon of the Spirit. And it is in this capacity that I believe pleases God. That is how I have been persuaded in my own mind and will be faithful as the Lord gives grace. Rich _________________ RICH
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| 2007/3/7 16:23 | Profile | RobertW Member

Joined: 2004/2/12 Posts: 4636 St. Joseph, Missouri
| Re: | | Hi Krispy,
I was wondering what you take is on how the Lord changed certain aspects of the law or revised certain things so as to disallow things that under the law had been lawful. I am referring to the whole love your enemies thing?
Just wondering,
God Bless,
-Robert _________________ Robert Wurtz II
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| 2007/3/7 16:44 | Profile |
| Re: | | Quote:
RobertW wrote: Hi Krispy,
I was wondering what you take is on how the Lord changed certain aspects of the law or revised certain things so as to disallow things that under the law had been lawful. I am referring to the whole love your enemies thing?
Just wondering,
God Bless,
-Robert
It has always been my understanding that as individuals we are to love our enemies. However, as citizens of nations the Bible is clear, that in New Testament times the Government acts as the Sovereign and carries the sword.
I posted this earlier, and I believe that it applies to what has been discussed on this thread.
God's Word, in Romans, chaper 13 tells us God is in control of history and is behind setting up world governments. He also authorizes Governments (the Sovereign) to carry the sword and to punish those that do evil with the sword (the gun, the sword, the rocket launcher, etc.) WITH WRATH ---"a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil"
1. Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4. For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The Old Testament is also clear on this issue. I posted this previously from the Old Testament:
The commandment is "thou shalt not murder", not "thou shalt not kill".
To murder is to lie and wait and kill and refers to criminal acts of killing and has nothing to do with fighting wars, or working as a policeman and having to kill someone in the line of duty.
However,when we pick up our Bible and read the sixth commandment we see "Thou shalt not kill." In this form pacifists and other groups have chosen this commandment as their rallying cry.
Indeed, "kill" in English is an all-encompassing verb that covers the taking of life in all forms and for all classes of victims. That kind of generalization is expressed in Hebrew through the verb "harag." However, the verb that appears in the Torah's prohibition is a completely different one, " ratsah" which, it would seem, should be rendered "murder." This root refers only to criminal acts of killing.
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I served in the Navy while Viet Nam was heating up. Being in the service seems to me to be a great mission field for Bible Believing Christians that are willing to witness to the lost. Most of the men that they serve with are not saved, and are eager to hear the "good news" of salvation and eternal life, especially on the battlefield, or aboard ship when a war is going on.
You don't have to be a conscientious objector to spread the Gospel, you can do that wherever you find yourself- even if that place is in the Army, while you are driving a tank, defending your Country.
God bless,
Stever
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| 2007/3/7 23:41 | |
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