Yes. I said all that and I meant it.
Quote:You know who Jesus preached the HARDEST to? The "religious" crowd. He called them all kinds of names and judged them. He called them all kinds of nice little word such as, "vipers", "hypocrites", and that's just what they were, and so are you, if you are trying to say your not as rotten and vile as those that claim to be christian but don't look and act as "spiritual" as you. Your just as filthy and wretched as they are brother. If?? your saved, your just a SINNER saved by Grace. That's all you are and that's all you'll ever be. Theres nothing holy about you, or Paul Washer, or the Pope, and if you say you are holy YOU my friend are a HYPOCRITE yes YOU. Brother you can twist scriptuer and try to throw scripture at me all day long but you know i'm right. Paul Washer, if he's reading this message, knows I'm right. Your preaching something that you know in your heart is wrong brother, and you need to get right with God, and I'm telling you that because I know where your at.
Well, well. Look at how HOLY I am I don't do all these things that you do. I'm SOOOO spiritual and I'm a christian, not you, because I do this and this, and this, and don't do this. You are sooo decieved because you watched a dirty movie, or listen to Britney Spears your not really a christian because your not very holy.
And then you wrote:
Rom. 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest DOEST THE SAME THINGS.
First, I want to let you know that what I'm going to say, I say in love. I'm not angry at you, nor do I wish to promote any more quarreling in these forums. But I believe you need to be rebuked for the statements you have made on this thread.
To tell you the truth, the comments quoted above really grieve my heart. Not only have you hypocritically judged brother Washer without knowing his heart, his motives, having listened to any other sermons of his, or knowing anything about him, but you have quoted the very Scripture which condemns [i]you[/i] of doing the [i]same thing[/i] you accuse him of doing.
He needs to grow, and he will. Hopefully
Brother, this is a very condescending remark. It seems as if [i]you[/i] are the one with the "I'm more spiritual" attitude. I'm sorry, but this is shameful and plain wrong.
It seems to me, and this is just an [b]assumption[/b], that he's mixed up in his foundational doctines, as I have been, and I say this because It's easy to pick up on when you've been there. without the frim foundation of the doctine of justification all else is a farce. It sounds good what he's saying, but it's just not biblical.
"A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards."
"Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him."
"Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath"
Please heed to the above verses. Rather than make an assumption, why not find out what he actually believes by going to his ministry webstite (www.heartcrymissionary.com) and listening to the sermons in which he speaks on justification? I would recommend listening to "The Greatest Text in the Bible" and "The Meaning of the Cross."
Listen, I can right a message that would have ministers doubting their own salvation, but what good is that. I think we should build peoples faith, and hope, and love by the word of God instead of condemn the justified. Just preach the cross and let God do the drawing.
"Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?unless indeed you are disqualified. But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified."
2 Corninthians 13:4-6
"For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
2 Peter 1:9-11
As these verses show, we are to examine ourselves. And the first epsitle of John is full of verses which distinguish between true and false converts.
And furthermore, the purpose of the sermon was not to make any believer doubt their salvation, but to make the many false converts see that they had no salvation to begin with. As Mr. Washer pointed out, there are thousands of professing Christians who live like the world and believe themselves to be saved simply because they came down to an altar and repeated a prayer. It's almost like catholic confession. And worse yet, we have many pastors today who, in their attempts to "build people's faith" and not "condemn the justified," are giving these professors of religion FALSE ASSURANCE of salvation.
easy believism? What the opposite of that? Hard believism? that don't even sound right, "easy believism". The legalists don't like that, but it is that simple.
Really? Is it easy to give up a lifestyle of sin? Is it easy to let go of your pride, and throw yourself at the mercy of Jesus? If it were easy, then it wouldn't be a narrow path, now would it?
I see a young man who's all but sealing his fate as a BAPTIST preacher.
You are absolutely correct. Such was the fate of the prophets. Such was the fate of the apostles. They boldly declared the truth in love, and dearly payed the price for it. Our own Lord and Savior was rejected, falsely accused, persecuted, and crucified. Do you expect to receive better treatment than the Son of God?
Perhaps you have misunderstood this sermon. You said his preaching reminded you of yourself. However, just because you preached with wrong motives doesn't mean Paul Washer has the same problem. Again, I say this in love brother, you have misjudged Washer, and have made assumption after assumption without knowing anything about his life. I would recommend listening to the message again, and listening to some of his other sermons. Pray about it, and examine the Scriptures to see if what he is saying is true. It's not about your opinions or experience--it's about what the Word of God says. Read 2 Corinthians 10:5. We are to bring every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.
Hope you do take this into consideration.
God bless you.
Paul could be too "spiritual" to come on here and read a petty message from such a pathedic little wretch like me. He miht even laugh at this kind of post and blow it off as just another LOSER, Hes a no name.
Im not scarred of the "religious elite". It on't bother me that I'm not popular in the "religious sectrum". :-)
| 2007/3/6 22:49|
what are the different jobs of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer?
| 2007/3/6 23:31||Profile|
Paul could be too "spiritual" to come on here and read a petty message from such a pathedic little wretch like me. He might even laugh at this kind of post and blow it off as just another LOSER, Hes a no name.
Isn't it possible that you are projecting a personality of your own imagination onto Paul? I've never met the man, but odds are he wouldn't blow you off as another loser.
The forum has become a breeding ground for assumptions...perhaps it's understandable since we cant really see or hear each other as we discuss things. Yet for some reason everyone assumes everyone else is looking for trouble!
Usually this is just about the time a moderator has to come in and encourage patience...but I am hoping we can outgrow this suspicion of each other.
Like I said earlier...I see no conflict between a confidence in grace and a desire for holiness.
Certainly we can not think we can be holy as the Lord is holy. Both Isaiah and John saw the angels in the presense of God, seraphim who were sinnlessly perfect, trembling in awe and calling to each other "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord... Indeed Isaiah saw the seraphim covering their eyes...which could even indicate holy fear! Perhaps, even as glorified beings we will never be above the fear of God's transcendant holiness. So J-Bird, I think you and Isaiah, and John would see eye to eye in the high reverence you reserve alone for the Lord.
We always need reminding that our salvation is'Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost:
But having been washed we also need reminded that ... as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.' (1 Peter 1:15,16)
I really do not understand why this has to be an antagonistic either/or struggle. How can it be that a people who ... are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.' could not rejoice at the closeness of God and yet still tremble at that very same closeness? They are both sensible responses!
| 2007/3/6 23:45||Profile|
First off let me say, I'm a preacher. My bible says to "Preach the word: REPROVE, REBUKE, EXORT, with all LONGSUFFERING and DOCTRINE." That's what I'm called to do. Notice the word doctrine. Get out your bible and count how many times Jesus' doctrine was refered to.
If you've done that, you'll notice that DOCTRINE is pretty important. That's why doctrine is so important. If it was important to Jesus, it should be important to us.
Now the controversy is in how each of us percieve holiness. I see holiness as me being holy, only because I am in Christ, and He is in me. You, and others on this sight, and I'm assuming you, percieve holiness as something WE strive for. Right? I am as holy as Jesus because I'm in Christ, and he's in me, I'm part of the body. It's not because of anything that I have done or will do.
The only way to understnad Grace is for the Lord to show you, and even then we only "know in part". I can't teach you this, God has to show it to you, and you have to be open to it, but I know that if we can let this get hold of us we'll never be the same. We wont look at people the same way. We'll see Jesus more differnetly than ever.
| 2007/3/7 0:06|
what are the different jobs of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer?
I don't really understand the question brother, after all I'm just a dumb old country boy. Amen!!
| 2007/3/7 0:11|
"Old things are passed away, behold all things become new." Hmmmmmmm, What things are new? Our works?.... Is that what that's saying? Hmmmmm Funny.... it did'nt say works. I wonder why were not born of corruptable seed, but of incorruptable. Could it be because were so wrteched and vile that we had to have something PLANTED inside of us.
When Jesus said, If I be lifted up I'll draw all men unto me, wonder what he meant. If we preach the gospel he'll draw all men to him. Right? Funny.......It did'nt say that if "WE preach the gospel" he would draw all men unto him. It said that if he's "lifted up" he'll draw all men unto him. I thought he was ALREADY lifted up, on the cross. So all thats left is he'll draw ALL men unto him. Could it be that he's drawing ALL men unto him right now. While your sleeping he's drawing ALL men, while your at work he's drawing ALL men, While your in the shower he's drawing ALL men. All men are being drawn, but the Word has to become flesh, that's where we come in.
Wow...whered that come from :-o
| 2007/3/7 0:35|
You are right..only the Holy Spirit can teach us about grace.
Yet brother, if you knew more about me, you would see that without the Grace of God saving me you might see I am a scumbag that even you would be ashamed to know. If I thought it would be profitable to boast of my unworthiness I would...but it is not profitable. Just know that the desire to practice holiness does not always come out of self-righteousness, but sometimes out of gratitude for the grace and mercy shown. I believe you understand this.
I do not presume to teach anything about holiness...let alone how to obtain it through striving. (Not all striving is contrary to grace...) Others here are more qualified in this area...and I do mean that. Really it is embarrasing that I am even involved in this conversation...but I feel you are defaming men and carrying grudges against men you do not properly know.
Now to be fair, I also do not know Paul Washer or most of the people in these forums. I only know that we are called to walk in holiness. This is not merely a legal position...but a manifest expression to the world of the righteousness imputed within! And though I am a novice I do not mind admitting that I fail in the practice of it. So I will not presume to ask you or anyone to "be holy like me", ...which from here on out is only a straw man of your invention. However, I do ask that other Christians, such as yourself, not judge me, nor try to talk me out of holiness or mock the practice of holiness, as if the desire to be like Christ is pharisaical. This is most confusing to the young believer.
Not every attempt to imitate Christ is out of false motives brother! Surely to accuse the brethren so grieves the Holy Spirit. Preach against a prideful heart if you must, but never derride a man for wanting to live faithfully, honestly, and righteously! We can hope better of one another I'm sure.
Well I am sorry for any offense due to my flaws. The forum is tender and sensitive to the touch these days, so I'll leave off and let you drink in peace brother.
Blessings J-Bird and God bless you as you preach his Gospel!
| 2007/3/7 0:51||Profile|
:-P :-P Had to share this with you beloved,
I had a thought that made me laugh sooo hard :-P :-P Could you just imagine all the pharisees and scribes standing around in their big tall hats and big loooong robes lookin all pious and religious, they got their nose all stuck up and their fake humility is soo obvious :-P :-P Then Jesus comes in there and starts blazin a trail, I mean he's hammerin em, he's callin em all kinds of names :-P :-P I can just see their bottom lip all pooched out while he's raird back blisterin theri hide :-P :-P :-P Ohhhhh man!!!! I can't quit laughin :-P
Anyhoo, thought you might like that thought
| 2007/3/7 1:58|
Gotta share this with you bretheren, and sis's to.
Paul said"I'm the CHIEFEST of sinneres". It's liberating when you can except that your just low down, rotten, and vile, and you don't care what anyone thinks about you or says about you because it's all true. Well, maybe not exactly, but if you think about it, if Paul said "I'm the chiefest of sinners", that puts him below the, molesters, and rapists, and murderes, and pedifiles, and lesbians, and gays, and dope smokers, and alcohlolics, and prostitutes, and sex addicts, and the gutter bums.
I'm not as good as them, I'M WORSE!!!!!
| 2007/3/7 8:26|
If God has graced a man with is Holy Spirit, what would be the outward expresion of that man by now having the Spirit of Christ?
| 2007/3/7 8:44||Profile|