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Discussion Forum : General Topics : I am so sick of the easy-believism that is so prevailant in American Christianity!

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ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: more by way of balance...

[b][color=660033]...with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again[/color][/b]


[b][color=660033]...I do always those things that please him.[/color][/b]



_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/3/5 12:34Profile









 Re:

I'll say this and I'm finished.

Jesus is the only way. The bible says there will be those that are "saved as by fire". They did'nt do anything right as a christian. They were failures in the work of the Lord. They never lifted a finger to further the kingdom. They may of even hindered the work of the kingdom. These are the ones nobody wants. these are the outcasts and the rejects of the church, the down trodden, many never given a chance, never having a mentor or a guide to help them grow spiritually. these are the ones that you say arent really even saved. Their the ones that the devil has decieved into believing theres no hope for them and that they are'nt really saved. Their the ones on the other side of the computer monitor inside theri homes reading this message and saying to themselves after reading all your posts "I knew there was no hope for me." Their the ones as a humble little child put their faith in a man called Jesus.

They did'nt know much about the bible and they may not of even been able to read, but someone told them that Jesus loves them when noone else did, and that he died for them so that they might have eternal life. They believed that in their heart and God saved them.

Their the alcoholics that lost the battle. Their the drug addicts and sex addicts that lost the fight. Their the ones that WE gave up on and said it's no hope they can't be helped. They may not of gotten anything else right my friend, but praise God they got that right.

Their the Lazurus laying beside the gate and begging for a scrap of food and the dogs are licking their sores. Oh, their a discusting sight and they sure would'nt fit into your clicks, but Jesus loves them and he purchased their Life with his own blood. They did'nt meet your requirements as a "rather spiritual and holy person". No, no, no..... Oh, but they met Jesus requirements and thats all that matters.

So I say shame on you, shame on you, shame on you, for despising these people who our Lord died for, and shame on me as well for having done it myself.

You know why the way is narrow my friend? I'll tell you. Because Jesus is the only way and many are gonna miss the SIMPLICITY of that. Think about all the religion the world has to offer. But eternal life comes by one man. Jesus and Jesus alone and by faith alone. Sounds so simple, but yet it's so hard for us to except

So you can have your filthy works I'll just take Jesus. All MY righteousness is as filthy rags.

No christianity has'nt changed. Their are many who still preach grace. The growing trend is to put a little twist on that. Lets change the it and tell people that if they don't "repent" and "keep on repenting", than they did'nt really get the real thing and their not really saved.

Repentance is this. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Repentance is excepting that narrow path wich is Jesus. I'm changind my mind about death, I want life. that's it.

I'd be stoned for preaching this in many of your churches and branded a heretic, but think God that their are still some Old, wise pastors like the one I mentioned before that helped me by a few simple words and steered me away from a ministry of causing doubt, and confusion. Thank God their are still SOME pastors that know a LITTLE about grace.

These type pastors don't preach in your megga churches and tickle your ears with their eloquent speaches. They don't build up your pride by telling you how holy you are if your doing real spiritual stuff. No, they pastor a small congregation ,most of them, of 100 members or less. They tell people about the love of Jesus, and they win the little community to the Lord, those that will listen. Their not well educated and almost illiterate by todays standards. They carry a big ole King James bible around with them and they love to sit and talk to the old widows and help their little women into the church. They eat meals that many would'nt eat, and oh how they love the Lord. They feel in theri heart their a failure sometimes, because of their limited KNOWLEDGE, but their WISDOM far exceeds the "religious" scholars. Why? Becasue they have "GROWN IN GRACE" and their as sturdy as a 100 yr. old oak. Their as sound as they come. Solid as a rock. Their salvation rests in Jesus and they want to tell others about him.

I still have alot to learn but thank God he has shown me a little about grace as well.

You keep your rotten holiness, my holiness is Jesus, and I say that as a man freed from legalism, for now, and hopefully forever.


 2007/3/5 21:33
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

As I have read through this thread, I began to realize something neat.
I understand to a point where J-bird is coming from, but I also think it was a little harsh to decry Bro. Washer as well.

The point I would like to bring up is this, too often we listen to messages by men like Bro Washer, Bro Daniels etc, and we say, "that's it I will be like them!" only to have a false flesh based "holiness" that many times comes across as arrogant, and self-righteous. Perhaps this is because we have made a decision to be like a man instead of yielding to the Man Christ Jesus.

I am constantly being reminded of the Scripture that says, "the flesh profiteth nothing" so would it not be safe to say that if we make a "fleshly" decision to be more "holy" it profits nothing, and only ends up creating despair as you can never be holy enough, never pray enough etc. In the end, we place ourselves under a law, and determine our acceptance to God by that. But that totally defies Christ's work upon Calvary. The point is we could not be holy enough but He was, we could not do enough, but He did. Now I am no longer a servant, but a son, and my obedience is out of joy and love.

Of course it is good to have "goads" that prod us here and there, but ultimately that chief Goad should be Christ Himself, thus we serve Him, and all He demands, He provides. Whereas our flesh will make a million different demands, and fulfill not one of them.

I have done the very things I write about, and I have used my self righteous attitudes gained from trying to be like these men to cause more harm than good both in my own wal, and in others' as well. It's not their fault, they are preaching from their burden, but that does not mean I need to live as to please Paul Washer, or David Wilkerson, or even my own twisted view of what I think I should be. But rather I live to please one, Christ Jesus, my Head, and my Lord.

It is liberating, and it is dangerous, but it is truly wonderful.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/3/5 22:29Profile
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re:

J-bird,
what are the roles of the Holy Spirit in a Christian's life?
love
andy


_________________
andy

 2007/3/5 22:30Profile
strawrifle
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 139
uk

 Re:

Quote:
They did'nt do anything right as a christian. They were failures in the work of the Lord. They never lifted a finger to further the kingdom. They may of even hindered the work of the kingdom. These are the ones nobody wants. these are the outcasts and the rejects of the church, the down trodden, many never given a chance, never having a mentor or a guide to help them grow spiritually. these are the ones that you say arent really even saved. Their the ones that the devil has decieved into believing theres no hope for them and that they are'nt really saved. Their the ones on the other side of the computer monitor inside theri homes reading this message and saying to themselves after reading all your posts "I knew there was no hope for me." Their the ones as a humble little child put their faith in a man called Jesus.

They did'nt know much about the bible and they may not of even been able to read, but someone told them that Jesus loves them when noone else did, and that he died for them so that they might have eternal life. They believed that in their heart and God saved them.

Their the alcoholics that lost the battle. Their the drug addicts and sex addicts that lost the fight.



J-Bird this was and is me for 25 years..I have tried and tried for so long to build on what a scared boy of 15 saw in Nicky Cruz book..It seems sometimes i didn't start sining till i got saved,i went so far off the path..I could never make it work!! i never felt right with other Christians,or feel joy or contentment about God..

But ur post seems to leave me there..Is that all there is? that i made one right choice all them years ago..Wheres the hope that something magical will happen?

Jesus says there is a path,but ur post makes me feel like i don't even get on it..maybe i'm missing something forgive me if i am..

But the irony is people like Paul and Keith Daniel or Pastor Carter,the preachers who are considered Holiness preachers, frill me the most..They promise me something magical

aj


_________________
andy

 2007/3/5 23:58Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Brother J-Bird, your last post was touching. I would never want to add one thng extra nor take away from your confidence in the suffiency of Jesus! You have stated it with a compelling passion that was very upliftng to me.

Yet I do feel it edifying to point out that a turn to holiness need not be viewed as a turn towards self-righteousness or as works-salvation.

This week I was teaching my children about holiness. Now I would never want to disturb their tender faith in Jesus with any unstable false burden of works. Indeed, I see my role as an earthly father summed up in leading them to their heavenly Father; to give them just a small taste of the love that they can know from their heavenly father. Still, I want them to know about holiness...though we all might admit with some reluctance that the very word is strange to say in this day and age.

Why, as a father that is committed to equipping my precious children with a deep life-long abiding confidence in God's unfailing love, why would I also impress on them the importance of Godly living? Precisely that they may learn to walk as close to the God of their comfort as they are able, and to spare them the dissolusionment of sin and the heartbreak of being in conflict with the Spirit who is their comforter.

You poignantly described those that have tried and failed to find victory over their sins. Well I will point out that by portraying them as exausted and crushed and not as flippant or diffident, that you understand it is right that they should try! You certainly weren't encouraging them to give up or grow indifferent. On the contrary you were showing compassion for their wounds, and encouraging them to take refuge in Jesus that gives them the strength to keep believing.

This is a far cry from condoning their defeat, or from encouraging a careless attitude towards sin. In this way, you and Paul Washer are not completely at odds. He is speaking to those who have no burden for righteousness, while you are concerned for those who are feeling crushed over the self-awareness of their unrighteousness. You are having compassion on the broken and outcast who realize they need Jesus, while Paul Washer is rebuking those that sin presumptively in Jesus' name with no wrestling, no lament, no heavyness of heart over their sin.

Blessings brother,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/3/6 0:05Profile
John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re:

Balance,

I love that word.

God's will for our lives is holiness. Why? Because it represents wholeness. There is simply no better way to exist than living holy lives. This is God's heart at work. His desire for us is to be filled with righteousness, peace and joy. What marvelous things these are! This is the kingdom of God imparted to our innermost beings by the Holy Spirit. This is also known as the kingdom of God. What blessedness there is in holiness!

On the other side of this coin is grace. God comprehends the pain and disfunction within our souls. He has compassion for the wretched condition that sin causes. Not only our own sinfuless, but the damage caused by others as they have sinned against us. No one, and I repeat no one can fully comprehend every intimate detail of life that makes up an individual soul except God. When we come to Him and cry out "God save me", when we recognize our sinful condition and see the answer in Jesus Christ, God does something very special. He saves us to the uttermost. Nothing more is needed. At this point we are adopted into His family. He looks down upon us there on our knees and whispers..My son, My daughter, I love you and will NEVER let go of your hand.

God loves even or maybe especially, the devestated amongst us. In this world of ours many people encounter unspeakable horror before coming to the cross. The reality of our sin sick world is that children are subjected to all manner of abuse. This comes in many forms and many degrees. This in turn will cause their own sinful nature to become worse as they lash out in anger and bitterness. How can we make judgements about the quality of christian growth when we cannot possibly know the degree of pain and mistrust that has been drilled into someones heart? Judge not! Yes that verse IS in the bible!

But what does God say? My son, my daughter, I love you and will NEVER let go. You BELONG to Me now. You have been redeemed.

Amen and Amen.

Woe unto those through whom offenses come.

In His Unsearchable love,

Doug


_________________
Doug Fussell

 2007/3/6 1:04Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Hi J,

been thinking of your post the whole morning. I think that the rub is this, what is the state of the persons heart toward Jesus. Is he/she proud or humble. Peters comment is that God gives grace to the humble. That is amazing, that in spite of all his commands, he will give the humble person grace.

Another thought on this is that Paul tells the corinthians that:Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 12We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who [b]take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart.[/b] 13If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. 14For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

16So [b]from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view.[/b] Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.2 Cor 5
This passage I have thought on often and the admnishment not to regard people anymore in manner after the flesh is really interesting.

I really enjoyed your comments, it made me think a little about the issues you have spoken about.

God bless,


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2007/3/6 6:00Profile









 Re:

Hi bro. aj

Quote:
Is that all there is?

Yes. Jesus is that path my friend. You may have started drifting when that became no longer enough.
Quote:
They promise something magical

That's because we like to see the surface of things. What did Jesus call the pharisees? Whited seplucures. Nice and clean on the outside, beutiful to behold and even breathtaking as far as beuty is concerned, but on the inside, full of dead mans bones.

His grace is sufficient brother. It's sufficient. It's enough. It's everything.

Is grace not a free gift? Would you give someone a gift and then say they can't have it because they did'nt try hard enough to get the gift. That's crazy. Simple faith is all it takes.

Grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus, let God take care of the rest.

 2007/3/6 6:38









 Re:

Hi bro. Zekeo,

Quote:
Peters comment is that God gives grace to the humble.

This is good brother. Some of these precious souls are so humble they wont even look you in the eye.

What is humility?For me, I've discovered it is a constant self awareness of what we really are.

 2007/3/6 6:50





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