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bigdaveusa
Member



Joined: 2003/6/13
Posts: 49


 Re: tattoos

I have to agree that a christian should under no circumstance be tatooed. This physical body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. We are indeed bought with a price, and friendship with the world is enmity with God. We are called out from the world. I question what spirit is motivating any christian to get tatooed.
That having been said, I would agree with Ron if you already have a tatoo. Excellent observation, Ron.
I have to go now, I hear something rustling deep within my closet of anxiety. :-o


_________________
Dave

 2004/4/18 12:50Profile
modernmatt
Member



Joined: 2004/4/20
Posts: 1


 Re:

Hey Guys, I just wanted to make some comments for everyone “for and against tattoos”. There will be times I will contradict myself, but it is because I am asking questions for both sides to think about. Now I am new to posting in here, but I am going to make comments from people who posted a long time ago, so you might have to go back and read their post to understand what I am talking about.

I will start off by saying I do have “Christian tattoos” on my back, but at the time I got them, I got them for the wrong reason, but please understand that I am going to make comments for and against tattoos. But I am more focused on getting away from legalism and getting focused on a love-relationship with God. At the end of this post, I will share more of what I believe about “tattoos”.

Now, it was written several times in this forum that someome “questions whether a person who gets a tattoo is really saved”. My jaw literally dropped to the floor. That’s a reckless comment. The idea that if someone debates that getting a tattoo is OK (whether that person believe it is a sin or not) makes a person’s salvation in question is just wrong. I could make the statement “if someone debates that caffeine isn’t bad for you, then I question your salvation and whether God is in your heart. Caffeine is evil no matter if it is a drop of coffee or a six-pack of dr. pepper a day. It abnormally speeds up your heart and is an addictive drug. God’s law states that our body is the temple and we should not put drugs into our body”. Now, I don’t believe in the fact that drinking caffeine in moderation is bad, but there are people out there that would say I was sinning. This can be the same for if you believe drinking a glass of wine is OK, smoking one cigar on special occasion, whether buying stocks is actually a form of gambling (because technically you are trying to gain on another’s lose … and if this is considered greed …. and if you REALLY believe that you are buying stock to have 0.0000123% ownership in a company, or are you really just trying to make money) whether Contemporary Christian Music is or isn’t music pleasing to God (or “heavy metal instruments”) and so forth (I will not share my views on these because it would take to long)

1 Cor 8:10-13 “ You see, this is what can happen: Weak Christians who think it is wrong to eat this food will see you eating in the temple of an idol. You know there’s nothing wrong with it, but they will be encouraged to violate their conscience by eating food that has been dedicated to the idol. So because of your superior knowledge, a weak Christian, for whom Christ died, will be destroyed. And you are sinning against Christ when you sin against other Christians by encouraging them to do something they believe is wrong. If what I eat is going to make another Christian sin, I will never eat meat again as long as I live – for I don’t want to make another Christian stumble.” (Also read Romans 14:20-23)

So who is in the right? The one who believes it is a sin against God because the rules say you shouldn’t hurt the temple of the Holy Spirit, or the person who knows that a cup of coffee once a week is not a sin because in his love-relationship with God it is not a sin? God clearly states that there are things in this world that are not a sin to one Christian, but a sin to another Christian. This kind of takes away the power of ruling by the letter of the law as the Pharisees did. It shows that there is a need for a relationship with God. God wants us to have a relationship with him rather than follow written laws (of course, we can’t follow all the written laws and in James 2:10 “and the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as the person who has broken all of God’s laws”). Rules without a love-relationship with God equals rebellion or legalism. I think we sometimes approach holiness legalistically instead of relationally for holiness is the very life of Jesus manifested through us and since Jesus is holiness and Jesus is love, one must have a love-relationship with Jesus for one to have holiness. (Romans 13:10 – “Love does no wrong to anyone, so love satisfies all of God’s requirements… Other verses to read: Romans 10:9-10 – Romans 3:27 – Hebrews 11:1 – Galatians 3:24 - James 2:17-18)

BUT (I told you this wasn’t one sided), if you love Christ, then you love other Christ followers. And as you read the end of 1 Cor 8:10-13 that you are sinning against other Christians if you encourage them to do something they believe is wrong and even though it is OK between you and God, if you do it publicly you can destroy a Chrisitan. If a Christian destroys another Christian, woe is me!!!

So for what I believe about tattoos, (sorry, it wasn’t suppose to be this long) the choice is between you and God. As for me, I have my tattoos on my back so no one can see them, unless (1) I am around other Christians who believe the same as I about tattoos or (2) use them as conversation tools for witnessing. Other than this group, no one really knows that I have tattoos. I don’t tell people that I have them, nor do I take off my shirt around people who I may hurt. That’s where the reason I got my tattoos come in. I got the tattoos because I wanted to (1) have a different witnessing tool, (2) have a cool/different way of doing it (3) because it was cool (4) and for it to be a long-lasting reminder to me of my stand for Christ. I think these were not the reasons I should of gotten them, but God has turned them to a blessing and gave me the understanding of how to use them correctly. Hence why I have a more strict rule on when and when not is it OK to take off my shirt, like at a swimming pool. Also, the tattoos now have more meaning to me since I try to keep the tattoos to myself. One of my weakest areas that Satan had a hold on me was with Lust. And every since I got the tattoos, never once did I ever do anything physical to my body with or without a girlfriend (still a virgin – just want to make clear), but I still as most men do, fight lust of the mind. But I have still prevented “defilement of the physical body” which is a huge win!! People will agrue that there were other ways of stoping lust, and I agree with that statement, BUT this is the way God used it on me. So again….. getting a tattoo is between you and God!! Don’t speak for God like I did. I was blessed that God used my misdirection in getting a tattoo into correct to directions of the use of the tattoos. If you believe getting a tattoo is a sin, DON'T GET ONE, you will be sinning!!!

There is so much more that I wish to say … but maybe another time. I know I probably upset several of you, but please know that I only am doing it out of love and hope that we get away from living by the law….that we live through our personal love-relationship with the Lord who is perfect and is better than rules in a book. And I know I probably said something about my tattoos that may be quite wrong to you, but thank God that this physical body stays here on earth when we die and we get an AWESOME heavenly body!!! God Bless!

 2004/4/29 13:15Profile
Solitare
Member



Joined: 2004/4/29
Posts: 1


 Re:

I think that it is important to take care of our physical bodies as well as spiritual. I agree that there has to be more or less of a line drawn. If you are so focused on exercise and eating healthy that it distracts you from doing what God wants you to do, then by all means draw a line. However, I think this is something that each of us needs to discuss with God ourselves. Not everying needs to draw the line at the same point.

Anyway, as far as your tattoo is concerned, I think it sounds very meaningful. I wear a plain ring on my left ring-finger to remind me of the commitment I made to God and my future husband to stay pure. It has also been a good witnessing tool. I have had a lot of people ask why I wear it, and I let them know. I don't push it on them or try to get them to acknowledge it, but if God chooses to use it for His good, then I am all for it.

I think that sometimes we need reminders of who we are in Christ and what sets us apart from the world, so that we can better live and witness in it. I commend you for the thought that you have given to this subject and that you are choosing something that I believe you can honor God with. :-P

 2004/4/29 21:55Profile
Ruairidh
Member



Joined: 2003/6/2
Posts: 5
Isle of Lewis, UK

 Re:

You guys are making me feel at home here. And I had been under the impression that americans didn't have a sense of humour.

Tatoos, things really bizarre.

I was listening to Leviticus the other day, and tatoos were mentioned. The interesting thing was that the prohibitions seemed to relate specifically to idol worship. Tatoos seemed to have been part of the contemporary idol worship scene, as were piercing, fornication and child sacrifice.

Does seeking to alter your appearance have something inately wrong with it?

If so, does tatooing and piercing come in the same category as make-up.

Just a wee bone to chew on!!!


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Ruairidh MacLean

 2004/7/23 10:57Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
Not only is it corrupting the temple of the holy ghost (your body, in fact i have serious misgivings on whether someone who desires a tattoo even HAS the holy ghost), but it is specifically prohibited in the bible, Leviticus 19:28. "No markings on your body, or cuttings in your flesh". I think that's pretty plain.



the same thing about anyone continuing to sin in any way could be said with regard to the holy ghost. how is having a tattoo worse than theft, murder etc? We all make foolish decisions before we come to christ. We can be forgiven but some decisions have consequences that we have to deal with for life. We also make some foolish decisions even After we come to Christ because every day we are at war with the old self which we have been since birth. But even so, ALL things (not some or everything except one even) work for the good of he who loves the LOrd.

do you have a tattoo? I do. does that make me less filled with the holy ghost than you?

Quote:
I think that if someone has the law of God written on their heart, and the spirit of God is in them, then there is no way they could possibly condone (and especially WANT) a tattoo on their body



If the law of God has been written on our hearts we should not want to sin and yet we do. Sure there are a lot of things that we have no desire for after receiving the spirit but there are those demons that continue to hound us with which we must war against. If the spirit of God is in us why do we continue to sin and condone it and WANT to sin? Some demons run at the first sight of the spirit, others are bolder and require us to use the spirit to run them off.


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Farai Bamu

 2004/8/10 10:43Profile
moss
Member



Joined: 2004/8/23
Posts: 2


 Re: tattoos?

There is a reason why the Lord strictly prohibits Tattoo as much as why idol worshippers wanted it on.
It is a fact that our time now is in the New Testament time its more spiritual than literal. Lets consider this: if Baptism is an expression of an inward faith can we say in any way that tattoos are an expression of our love for the Lord? We,as His children,i deeply feel must do act and behave in ways not according to ours but according to His. Oftentimes we always use our own(old man) strength and ideas to serve Him , remember Uzzah? Remember Moses? Sometimes it comes to the point of compromising to win some souls. But does it really work? Matthew 28:18-20 The weapon of our warfare is the victory and authority of our Lord. We use the excuse of being spiritual to deal lightly with tattoos and yet ironically using tattoos, an earthly physical means(instead of prayer) as an idea or method in serving the Lord esp when it comes to winning souls and reminding us of God's love? Very Ironic.
God's work must be done in God's way God's strength and in God's time that i believe is spirituality.

Just wondering if tattoos were never a trend or a fashion in our wolrd will there be any one wearing one?

 2004/9/8 13:42Profile
Chosen7Stone
Member



Joined: 2003/7/21
Posts: 268
FL, USA

 Re:

The definition of "trend" and "fashion" involve the short-term, by the way. But that aside...
The mark of the servant in Old Tesament times is an earring...he is marked as a bondservant. Was that not okay?
When we were told not to wear tattoos, it was not to wear tattoos of graven gods...that we were not to exalt idols. But if it's an expression of your faith, there's nothing wrong with that. Am I not to wear this cross 'round my neck? My WWJD bracelet, despite the fact that it "went out of style" when I was still in middle school, over 6 years ago? How about the Youth Group tee-shirt I sometimes wear, that reads "I am not afraid of the Gospel of Christ"? THAT is a tattoo, because I am covering my body with symbols that represent my faith.
The tattoo that adorns my back has raised many questions from nonbelievers and provided many witnessing opportunities. "I see how you live your life, and I just saw your tattoo. What does it mean?"
"Romans 6:1-14 is a passage from the Bible"...and I explain to them.
The point is that God sees the heart, and He and only He knows your reasons for what you have done. And so long as you do not fall into the trap of idolizing the images upon your body (which is why I had it placed on my back, where I cannot see it) as if they held some charming power or greater meaning that what is attributed nthem by the Word of God, I don't see the issue.
My point is this: I have marked myself as a bondservant of Christ, and when people see that tattoo, that "earring" that marks me, they know Who I serve. I did not get it to make a statement...God knows I'm not cool. :-) I got it because I love Him, and I want the world to know it. Because I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ anymore than I am ashamed of Him.


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Mary M.

 2004/9/12 13:38Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
The mark of the servant in Old Tesament times is an earring...he is marked as a bondservant. Was that not okay?


Hi Mary
I think you are the first post-er I have read on this or on other forums who has actually had a tattoo 'because' you are Christian. Your analogy with the servant is interesting but I think it has some flaws. A servant would have the ear-ring installed by his master. It was the master's single-link chain that told all that the wearer was no longer a free man.

Exodus 21 has a fascinating ritual for someone who had been freed but chose to remain a slave. The freed servant publically declared that he would 'not go out free'. The master then publically took the 'freed servant' to the judges who witnessed the servant being nailed to door temporarily (very temporarily :-)) He was 'nailed' to wood in his allegiance to his master; so are we.

There is an interesting omission from the normal pattern here; there is no ear-ring just a hole in his ear. This piercing is a picture of the cross in the life of the believer. We are to live 'pierced lives' (the shewbread was 'pierced loaves' too) The freed slave did not wear a ear-ring but he carried the mark of it. In our modern terminology, he was 'free' but not free to 'march to the sound of his own drum'. He was 'ear-marked' rather than 'chained'.

This ear-marking was not his own work but the work of his master. I respect your choices; they are yours to make. But to base them on these Old Testament patterns is unsafe. If you wanted to follow the Old Testament pattern, and I'm not suggesting that you do, you would have a hole not an ear-ring.

Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. (Psa 40:6 KJV)
This is Christ's testimony, according to Hebrews. It could well be translated... mine ears hast thou bored... This was the 'free' Son who refused His freedom and always did those things that pleased His Father.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/9/16 6:36Profile
Rafiki
Member



Joined: 2004/8/20
Posts: 30
His Hands

 Re:

Philogos;

Stone's Quote;
The point is that God sees the heart, and He and only He knows your reasons for what you have done. And so long as you do not fall into the trap of idolizing the images upon your body (which is why I had it placed on my back, where I cannot see it) as if they held some charming power or greater meaning that what is attributed nthem by the Word of God, I don't see the issue.

My comments -- I've pierced my nose for the simple reason of not falling under legalism.

There was a season... where I spend some time just observing those who do not attend a service, or are not at the moment converted. As it was quoted God sees the heart.

I've used my piercing not as a fasion statement, because I didn't even know or know if it's in style.

The purpose for mine, was to reach those who are so difficult to reach. I didn't do it out of rebellion, who would have ever thought that I would do something like this, but I did and i did it out of Love. I did it because I wanted the world to see, not the saved and the healed but the unsaved and the sick, that God is real and his Love is REAL, what he did on the cross over 2000, years ago for you and for me, it's REAL. At first I felt condemnation, but then I realized that I was always seeking approval, approval, approval.

Philogos, (Question) who reaches the piercing, the gang bangers, the prisoners? Who reaches Sodom and Gomorah?

I've noticed and have experienced times when I was able to witness to certain individuals that are not the easiest people to reach. But you know what Philogos I may look like the world but, I am not of this world. I must continue to keep my eyes on Him, (Jesus) and on the lost, the dieing, and the hurting that is his heart, and so when they see me coming, yes, may they see a person with a pierced nose, and with a black book on her right hand that travels with me where ever I GO!

Let me just say this and with this I will end, when I lay down it is him that is on my mind and in all of my thoughts, and when I wake up in the morning, quess what? it is him that is on my mind. (JESUS) My Lord, and My Savior.

 2004/9/16 11:06Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Hi Rafiki
You don't have to justify yourself or your actions to me. I was not challenging Chosen7Stone's behaviour, only her implied theology.

Quote:
My comments -- I've pierced my nose for the simple reason of not falling under legalism.

Real freedom never needs to prove anything to anyone, especially ourselves. ;-)


Quote:
Philogos, (Question) who reaches the piercing, the gang bangers, the prisoners? Who reaches Sodom and Gomorah?

We have a team of folk in our church here who have taken part-time jobs so as to be able to do this most of their time. Each week they spend time with remand prisoners and young offenders. Tattoos and piercings are of little importance to me, but as far as I know none of the team has either.


Quote:
But you know what Philogos I may look like the world...

I think you are arguing with the person you think I am, rather than the person I really am... ;-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2004/9/16 11:19Profile





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