| Poster | Thread | iansmith
Member
Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL
| | Re: | | I started this thread to get away from the Ian and Ben bashing... thanks!
Here's where my heart is. I'm a young guy, I'm a follower of Jesus. I know young guys and gals who aren't in a relationship with Jesus -I have a burden for them. I see the things they listen to, the cloths they wear as expressions of their lifestyle, but not an issue of their heart, not attached to their soul. They are in a desperate need for Jesus.
Paul said he'd become a gentile to reach the gentiles... well I'm not putting back on my punk rock clothing, but I'm definitely not going to tell anyone that he has to dress differently to accept Jesus -unless those cloths are clearly sexual or satanic. If it's a hip hop outfit, or skater cloths then I'm not going to say anything.
Let their spirit condemn them... but first let them hear about Jesus and recieve the spirit.
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Ian Smith
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|  2007/2/27 17:16 | Profile | BradW
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Joined: 2006/5/30
Posts: 94
Edmonton, AB, Canada
| | Re: | | Quote:
but I'm definitely not going to tell anyone that he has to dress differently to accept Jesus -unless those cloths are clearly sexual or satanic
This here is the thing that gets me...sure, anyone who has half a sense of discernment can call out those things that are obvious. I think the biggest thing in Christian rock is the "not-so-obvious" things that seasoned, tried and tested men of God are more able to discern.
There is a big sense of spirituality in a lot of the "ATF" bands that were previously mentioned, but like many are contending, they are shrouded in darkness. I listen to the Christian radio station in Edmonton and I seriously have to turn off the radio sometimes, and call the station to ask why some of the music is being aired at all. And that's usually BECAUSE of the lyrics. Not to mention the many sensual beats and near exact imitation of the music from, absolutely filthy, worldly songs.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but, kids aren't totally sheltered from the disgusting things in secular music, are they? Maybe it's just me, but when I hear a Christian band's "new" music that I've heard the tune somewhere before, I'm usually flooded with the imagery and lyrics of the originator. I'd bet donuts to dollars that it affects kids even more. The secular music is a lot worse than when I was in school.
Paul Washer said something like, North American doctrine is based, not on the Bible, but on Christian lyrics written by boys who know nothing about the Bible, and "Christian t-shirts".
The more I eat of the Word, the more that I see this to be blatantly true.
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Brad Wright
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| | 2007/2/27 17:47 | Profile | iansmith
Member
Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL
| | Re: | | Based on Paul Washer's age and his claim to have been friends with Leonard Ravenhill I assume that he was there in texas around the time of Keith Green or shortly thereafter... a lot of those people were strongly influenced by Keith Green.
Now I'm not standing up and saying that Skillet is today's Keith Green... because Keith did a lot of stuff that no band today would or could do to share the Gospel. But Keith walked, talked and acted in a lot of places like 'the world' which many people pointed out to him... and where the Spirit convicted him he changed those things, but there were a lot of things he didn't change.
Certainly his music caused a similar reaction to the church in his day, but those that were discerning (like Loren Cunningham, Leonard Ravenhill, Richard Dawsom, Winkie Pratney, David Wilkerson etc.) embraced Keith because his heart and life were sold out to Jesus.
Keith still worse the cloths of his peers, he still kept the haircut and beard of his peers, he still largely talked and joked like his secular peers... but he was different and no one can deny that.
In the ways that Keith was different he was a walking testimony of Jesus. I think Paul washer is saying more that 'it isn't what you wear or what you listen to that makes you a Christian -it's who you are!'
There are plenty of people who dress modestly and act gentlemanly who are slaves to sin -the same is contrast... there are people who dress like gangsters and rock stars who are sold out for Jesus. They are participating in this culture, but their lives are testimonies that they are ambassadors for the King of Kings.
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Ian Smith
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| | 2007/2/27 18:07 | Profile |
| | cultural idolatry | | Quote:
Compton wrote:
Quote:
but I hope you understand that I am seriously burdened for these young men and women.
...it is irrelevant to the real problems raised by the older men in this thread.
Don't forget us ladies :-)
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So how do we discuss this without young people feeling that their entire 'culture' is being judged by a bunch of 'white middle class Christians."...
...in this country, churches have this problem where everyone is worried about what will make men happy, rather then what will make God happy."
I know brothers like Ian and Ben have sincere hearts for unchurched youth. I would want to be careful to never squelch that! Recognizing and exteeming their burden I would still want them to consider these two points.
1) Not every critique offered here is rooted in race or culture.
Some great points MC, especially that it should be "what makes GOD happy"
What parts of the "youth culture" are OK and which are not?
The real issues are nothing to do with race or culture, but with [i][u]whether we are embracing the world's idols.[/u][/i]
For "middle class white Americans" those idols might be prosperity, respectability and the "purpose-Driven" approach. For other cultures it would be something else, including certain music that has demonically inspired elements in it. Which some rock and other kinds of music (not all of any genre) very definitely has.
Re the way one dresses, I think there can be a certain amount of tolerance, in the sense that what is considered "provocative" in one culture may be normal "respectable" dress in another. there was a time in the culture of the UK (and presumably America) when it was provocattive if a woman exposed more than her ankles under a long skirt! Yet in the 60's very short skirts, were required dress for anyone under 25 or so. "Respectable" in that case was a slightly less mini mini!
I read of a New Guinea tribe where the men wore nothing except long yellow gourds, tied to their waists with string! In their culture this was perfectly "respectable". Obviously the white missionaries didn't wear gourds, but neither did they try to force the tribesmen to wear shorts!
But there was no way they would compromise with demonic things in the culture, such as the spirit-houses.
The problem is to "come alongside" those with different cultures and lifestyles from our own, in genuineness and love, yet without compromise, without being tainted by their particular idols.
And if there is any trace of idolatry still in [i]our own[/i] hearts concerning those particular things then we will also be tainted afresh if we join in with idolatrous activities.
Perhaps an illustration from one of Amy Carmichael's books:
A little Indian girl heard about Jesus. She hadn't heard much, there was no opportunity, but she believed what she had heard, with all her heart.
The next time she was told, as was the family custom, to put Siva's ashes on her forehead she refused. Her parents scolded and even beat her, but she would not, she could not. If they put them on she rubbed them off. She knew she didn't belong to Siva any more, but to Jesus.
When the family celebrated Hindu festivals she found that she could join in parts of the ceremonies but not other parts. She would sit outside until the parts she wasn't comfortable with were over. Then she joined her family agian in their celebrations.
She didn't know the reasons, only that there were some things she could be part of and some things she couldn't.
Jeannette
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| | 2007/2/27 19:09 | | seanjol
Member
Joined: 2004/11/12
Posts: 55
Charleston, SC
| | Re: The truth about Ian!!!!! | | Hi Ian,
I have been reading through these posts for the last few days and have a few comments. I love your zeal and passion for the lost of your generation. I commend that and it is a challenge to me. I am 36 and was saved about 12 years ago. I was a big metallica, pearl jam etc fan. Honestly, I don't feel comfortable with alot of these Christian bands that work in that genre. It just reminds me too much of olden days and I want to think on whatsoever things are pure.
Although I am not saying that these bands aren't pure, they give me a very uncomfortable feeling. Maybe I am the weaker vessle. I am different in the sense that I love worship songs and I love some of the bands, Casting Crowns for example. But I am so in awe of God when I hear songs from a Charity Gospel Sing in accapella. No music, just voices raised to God. Something to be said of the peace of it.
All that being said, today someone posted a thread to lift up Paul West, he did not do it himself.
This thread was started by you and I perceive you to be vigorously defending yourself as if you have been wronged. Sometimes, if we are wronged, it's best just to be wronged. 1 Cor 10:12 says b]Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall."[/b]
You mentioned Zac Poonen. I love him and have been to see him preach numerous times. Listen to his sermon called Brokenness. I am sure it's on this site. It blessed me and convcited me. He says we need not get upset when people say things that hurt us, it shows our love for ourselves. If we love the Lord with all our heart, soul and might, we will have no room in our hearts to love ourselves to be offended.
If my perceptions have been wrong, please forgive me. If I'm 5% right grow from the 5%. If I'm 100% wrong, ignore me. :-)
Lord bless,
Sean
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Sean
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| | 2007/2/27 20:35 | Profile | sermonindex
Moderator
Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada
Online! | | Re: | | We need to stop talking on this topic. I think its very poor taste on these threads that are starting with people's names. I am locking this thread and ask people to leave this topic alone. It is sad that most Christian forums on the internet are in this type of condition with much fruitless bantering at times. The whole world is watching these discussions and we will be judged for every word. Let us seek purity in our discussions here and prayerfully post, especially in starting threads.
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| | 2007/2/27 20:46 | Profile |
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