| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Chris, this is awesome! A whole new perspective on the topic. Very edifying, and much food for thought.
Quote:
ChrisJD wrote:
Good morning eveyrone.
Something which comes to mind as I read through these recent discussions that I have wanted to share in an appropriate place is the matter of context. This has been brought up before on the forums and I think this issue is a snare to us when we handle the word of God, this matter of context.
Consider for instance this question of healing as we look to the life and ministry of the Lord Jesus. I beleive we are to look to the Lord Jesus as our example. But even here, there is a context in which to view it.
For instance, the Lord's ministry in the flesh was nearly 2000 years ago. He came to, He lived among, a people who had a long history with God, who were bound to Him by a special agreement, a covenant. The events of His life, the time, the place, the people, the history, all were coalescing into the focal point of God's plan from eternity and man's redemption in history.
There is a context here and we must not miss it.
In what we call His [i]High Priestly prayer[/i], the Lord said
[b][color=660033] I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.[/color][/b]
[i]I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do[/i]
Do you see brothers and sisters, He had [i][b]a work[/b][/i] to do. He went where God sent Him; He spoke what God told Him; He did what He saw with His Father. And you and I are to be like Him. But I do not think that means we are to copy Him, in the sense of, becuase He traveled in boats and walked on water I should do the same. Nor do I think we can decide from the work which God gave Him, what our work is to be as individuals as well.
Look then at this matter of healing in particular. Brothers and sisters, do you know that there was an awefull judgement in these miracles that He performed? Ohh they were a marvel but awefull as well.
He says,
[i][b][color=660033] If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin[/color][/b][/i]
[i][b][color=660033]...but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father[/color][/b][/i]
When I read this my mind goes back to what happened to their forefathers in the desert. Remember how they saw the mighty acts of God as well, and He said of them
[i]...all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice...[/i]
[b][color=000000]Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it[/color][/b]
And what happened to these in the time of the Lord Jesus? As I understand it, history records there was a terrible destruction at Jerusalem, which the Lord foretold, saying
[b][color=660033] For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.[/color][/b]
Remember too the woes he pronounced upon Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum, and saying of the first two
[i][b][color=660033]for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes.[/color][/b][/i]
There is a context here brothers and sisters, and we must not miss it. What then would happen if these same works were done in the cities of America today? Would it be worse for us then even it was for Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum? I do not know, but we have our own context, if you will, our own history, and I am inclinded to believe that this in some measure comes to bear in how God is dealing with us.
I believe that we are to look to the Lord Jesus or our example. But I do not believe we are to copy Him. I believe that, all of us, together, using the several and different gifts which God has given to us, working together, in all the situations and places of life that God may have us in, that we all, [b]together[/b], may come to or become...
[i]..a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:[/i]
But not seperately. I do not believe that is the purpose of our being called a body.
The scripture says to some He gives [i] gifts of healing[/i] and to others [i]the working of miracles[/i] and [i] faith[/i]. But it also asks
[i]are all workers of miracles?[/i]
[i]Have all the gifts of healing? [/i]
Some thoughts about this,
Chris
|
|  2007/2/24 18:15 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
PaulWest wrote:
Quote:
Huh? Chapter and verse please?
Good morning, sister.
2 Kings 13:21
Pardon me, Paul, you got there first ...In the mouth of two witnesses...
re "Good morning" its not far off midnight here now. I think you in the States are about 5 hours behind us in the UK :-)
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| | 2007/2/24 18:18 | |
| | Re: Should some be healed who are not? Another reason? | | (This is not saying that ALL should be healed necessarily)
OK, I don't think anyone is disputing that there are sick folk who God wants to heal yet they are not healed. Unbelief is suggested as a reason.
But what about 1Corinthians 11:27ff?
[i]"27 Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For any one who eats and drinks [b]without discerning the body[/b] eats and drinks judgment upon himself. [b]30 That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died."[/b][/i]
There are probably several opinions on what "not discerning the body" means. I would suggest that it may be "party spirit", as was rife in the Corinthian church at that time, or
"denominational" exclusiveness, as we often see in our day.
We have to realise - truly realise from the heart - that there is only one true Church, and its nothing to do with what label we want to put on ourselves, but whether we are in Christ or not.
Is this why some are not healed who could be???
Jeannette |
| | 2007/2/24 18:32 | | pastorfrin
Member
Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406
| | Re: Why some are not | | Jeannette said,
" Is this why some are not healed who could be??? "
Re: Sickness vs Healing
Please, everyone, look at Gods word. This is not the only reason but it is a major one.
1 Cor. 11:23-32
For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: [24] And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. [25] After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. [26] For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. [27] Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. [30] For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. [31] For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. [32] But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
James 5:14-20
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: [15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. [16] Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. [17] Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. [18] And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. [19] Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; [20] Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Mark 16:14-18
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. [15] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. [16] He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [17] And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
These signs shall follow them that believe.
Shall does not mean maybe, you either believe
and the signs confirm the word, or you don't and
you make excuses for your unbelief.
In His Love,
pastorfrin
2007/2/22
Yes, if we do not properly discern the Lord's
body. But James says:
James 5:13-20
Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. [14] Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: [15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. [16] Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. [17] Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. [18] And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit. [19] Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; [20] Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
The word shows us two ways to deal with this.
1. Let a man examine himself, if we judge our
selves we shall not be judged, and
2.The prayer of faith shall save the sick15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. [16] Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Notice also the differentiation made between
affliction James 5:13
Is any among you afflicted? let him pray.
and the sick
James 5:14, 15 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: [15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
There is a difference between affliction and sickness.
Anyway, the word says prayer and confession in
faith is the answer for both.
In His Love
pastorfrin |
| | 2007/2/24 21:27 | Profile | PaulWest
Member
Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas
| | Re: | | Quote:
re "Good morning" its not far off midnight here now. I think you in the States are about 5 hours behind us in the UK
Oh, ya! That's right. You know us Yanks - we think everything revolves around the United States. Keep having to remind myself there's land beyond Texas.
:-)
_________________
Paul Frederick West
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| | 2007/2/24 21:57 | Profile | Goldminer
Member
Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama
| | Re: Is It Gods Will To Heal
ALL the time? | | Dear Paul & Dorcas,
I was only asking for more understanding about what Chris had said. I certainly was faulting anything. However am I mistaken in my question about what the thread started as? This is the title.
" Is It Gods Will To Heal
ALL the time? "
It sounds like I might have been totally misunderstood.
Also thank you Chris for taking the time to clarify what you were saying.
_________________
KLC
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| | 2007/2/24 23:11 | Profile | Goldminer
Member
Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama
| | Re: Is It Gods Will To Heal
ALL the time? | | By the way Dorcas I wasn't saying it was claiming anything, In your quote of me:
This thread is about healing being for all believers.
I was simply questioning what the thread was about. I didn't think it was about the gift of healing, but about the whether or not healing was a part of our covenant in Christ. Do you see why I was asking?
_________________
KLC
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| | 2007/2/24 23:19 | Profile |
| | Re: Is It Gods Will To Heal
ALL the time? | |
Thanks Paul,
2 Kings 13:21 (King James Version)
And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
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| | 2007/2/26 9:56 | |
| | Re: | | Goldminer said
Quote:
I'm not sure I understand what you are asking or saying. [b]This thread is about healing being for all believers[/b], not about all believers having the gift of healing.
I'm sorry, it wasn't clear to me you were asking a question. It reads as a statement.
Are you clearer now? ;-) |
| | 2007/2/26 10:00 | | Goldminer
Member
Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama
| | Re: | | the light has dawned.
_________________
KLC
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| | 2007/2/27 0:45 | Profile |
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