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Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: a choice

Hi everyone.

This that I wanted to share has been coming to mind recently and I thought this might be an appropriate place to share it.

According to Strong's, the word which is translated heresies, and listed among the works of the flesh in the Apostle's letter to the Galatians is

From G138; properly a choice, that is, (specifically) a party or (abstractly) disunion. (“heresy” is the Greek word itself.): - heresy [which is the Greekord itself], sect.

The scripture says of Simeon and Levi that

[i]in their selfwill they digged down a wall[/i]

in their [i][b]selfwill[/b][/i]

they digged down a wall.

Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2007/2/21 19:38Profile



BenWilliams wrote:
Sorry everyone if my comment offended, I've just been suffering lately from seeing so many churches, and no power.

...But I still hold to my opinion...

... don't you see...

A blind man needs his sight, not someone to tell him everything around him.

And in the same way, a deaf man needs his hearing, not someone to show him what has been said.


Hey Benny boy...

I say Benny Boy for a couple of reasons. First of all, I am not much older than you and I can still be considered a boy with my limited understandings. Secondly, you stated that you were a man. Do you really have what it takes to have this responsibility? Are you still living with your parents? Are you paying any bills?

I also know you state that you are not perfect, but that is an easy way of escape, so you are not beheaded here on this forum. We are all to be as children: boys and girls. You are trying to grow up, as I was, much too fast. Slow down, listen, understand, and respect what people are trying to say. Each time anyone says something, you come back with some cocky know-it-all response.

I give you credit though. You have a lot of intelligence. When I was 20 I had a lot of zeal too, but not for God. No one could tell me anything that I did not already know or anything that I did not want to hear. No one will want to debate or discuss anything with you because you 'hold to your opinion'.

I read both the Times Square Church and Healing threads. You come across as very arrogant. Your heart seems to be in the right place, but your mind seems to be getting in the way. By experience, I know the older I get, the less I know.

You suggested that people (we) here do not see and you go on to proclaim what the blind and deaf NEED. What do you know about others' needs? You also state that you have seen so many churches without power. Where are you going? Where have you been? I am from Canada and have experienced many churches filled with the Spirit, which in turn had sufficient 'power'.

Not to mention, all the churches that I have been to here in South Korea and the ones in Greece and Turkey.

(on a side note, which this thread was originally about.....Seoul, South Korea has/had the largest membered church in the world. I attended it twice and it was a tremendous blessing. They speak Korean, but have translators. Ben, with your logic, I should have prayed for an ability to speak their language, rather than use the headphones which were provided to help me worship the Lord...anyway).

Ben, there are many things that you said over the two threads that need some adjustment. You do not need to be adjusted in your love for the Lord, but your attitude towards others. I am sure you will come back with a final word and quote and point out where I am wrong, but most people here are trying to help, not hinder your faith.

This is a place of learning, so that we are better equiped to share the gospel and help others find the Way. We are all blind and deaf to some degree, but thank God we have Jesus to show us the Way, so that when we go to heaven, NO ONE WILL HAVE ANY AFFLICTIONS, BLINDNESS, CANCERS, DEAFNESS, or DISEASE of any type. God's ways and times are much different than anyone of ours. We will be all healed. Some now, some tomorrow, some next year, but some not until they see Him face-to-face.

Be patient Ben, we have a lot to learn, but together, we can learn a lot. To some degree, I wish I had your love, when I was your age. At this point, I am happy that I have the love of Jesus to say... Ben, I love you and want to see you fight the good fight. We are not to fight with one another. We would be wasting our time, when we ought to be out saving souls.

God Bless those that listen before speaking,

 2007/2/21 22:09

Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 139


Ben/Goddamus,i have spent nearly all my adult life working with disabled people,elderly,brain damaged units etc..I got to be honest ur post is so frustrating (i'm being restrained)..

You've not answered the most important post on this thread,which was Krispys!! You've seemed to of glossed over Joni Erikson Tada ministry..A lady who seems to of been healed inside of bitterness,frustrations and what ifs..

I'm asking you directly is Joni ministry a second best ministry because shes not healed? Is she not living up to everything she could be,if only she was healed in UR opinion?


 2007/2/21 22:39Profile


maybe the two are the same :-(

 2007/2/22 0:25

Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991


according to this "God wants to heal everyone" new covenant thing, it is something that to me seems lacking whit that, if it should be like that that we could never be sick if we only had a strong faith, (still believe we get our faith from God, so indirect its Gods fault) but we still get sick? do you Ben ever catch a cold or something? when you do is your faith lower then? and if our faith isn't big enough to overcome a small decease how do we know we have faith that overcome sin? because to me if my faith is so week it cant beat a small cold or fever, it isn't something id rely on to get me to heaven... i just cant see that in scripture... can anyone explain that?


 2007/2/22 2:43Profile

Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL


I believe with all my heart that God is going to turn this paper in front of me into a million dollars... instantly! Wait, it hasn't happened, it must be because of my unbelief ~ oh woe is me.

I believe with all my heart that God is going to cure my grandmother of her terminal illness... instantly! Wait, it hasn't happened, she passed away, it must be because of my unbelief - oh woe is me.

Wait, it could be because only a lunatic would think that he could turn white paper into a million dollars worth of bills instantly... why is it that the same isn't true of healing.

You want to know why they're called Miracles? Because they're just that, miracles, they defy logic or explaination, or recreation! Sometimes God gives the power to do miracles and other times not. For example, Peter walked out of prison miraculously, but later we hear that Stephen was martyred! Well if we extend the jail-break miracle universally then there wouldn't be any martyrs would there? I really think these teachings on healing that are being discussed are heretically, divisive and sinful -and frankly untrue.

Jesus heals, let's leave it at that. We can see in history and even today that he hasn't always healed everyone -even if they deserve it, even if they have a faith that can move mountains. Sometimes it's not part of God's plan.

Stephen died a martyr, but no where else in the bible does it say that Jesus 'stood' at the right hand of the father... everywhere else he was sitting! Stephen died permaturely, but he was welcomed into heaven by the Lord himself, who stood to honor him!!!!

(tangent from the Times Square thread on the same topic) I also believe that when Fanny Crosby got to heaven, she got to see her Lord and savior, how beautiful that must have been, how beautiful that must be! Her faith was the size of a mountain, she suffered for the Gospel, and she will be rewarded as Jesus stands to welcome his faithful servant!

Ian Smith

 2007/2/22 2:55Profile

Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: A verse to meditate upon.

A verse to meditate upon.

Luke 5:17
One day as he was teaching, Pharisees and teachers of the law, who had come from every village of Galilee and from Judea and Jerusalem, were sitting there. [b]And the power of the Lord was present for him to heal the sick[/b].

This statement, made in the context it is made assumes that Jesus didn't always have the power to heal the sick, or he didn't in fact always heal the sick. There is no other way to explain this verse.

I dare you to try without looking a fool!

Now I would also like to mention that Luke is the most meticulous Gospel in that it was written by a physician, Luke, a doctor, Paul's travel companion. Now assuming that when fishermen join Jesus they become apostles, and tax collectors become apostles, and others become disciples, and it very rarely refers to a person's former station in life with the exception of two people I can think of. Paul confesses that he is a tent-maker and Luke a physician. Why would they need a physician around if everyone always got healed, wouldn't he just end up quiting his job.

Or could it be that Luke was a good person to have around because in fact, the Apostle Paul's buffeting in the flesh in fact was a wound to his flesh (as just about everyone outside of this forum who has ever studied the bible has agreed upon for 2000 years) and that a Physician by trade was a good thing to have around.

Ian Smith

 2007/2/22 3:00Profile


Thanks for clarifying everything. But keep in mind, you shouldn't 'vent' your anger at people because of a wrong doctrine. (This is something recent, like a week ago, the Lord has been teaching me)

[b]Lovegrace[/b] ...You misunderstood passion for anger. I'm not angry at all. I love Ben, which is why I feel so passionately about this. I hate to see people living in deception. It rips my heart out. I dont always choose my words perfectly, and because of the fact that written words are filtered by our brains differently then spoken words (due to vocal inflections, etc) it's easy to be misunderstood, and to misunderstand.

WOF is one topic that I come after pretty hard (the Bible version issue is another). Obviously this is due to my own experiences and my past. When I came out of WOF I was very angry about the lies I had been taught... and I was angry at myself for just accepting everything I was taught without consulting scripture. But I was also very saddened that so many people I had grown to love were caught up in this deception.

I explained to my friends back then why we chose to leave WOF... and we were politely shunned. By this, I mean that the relationship got extremely shallow. They didnt treat us rudely, but we were definately off the "A" list. (And put on the "S" list, if ya know what I mean! lol)

My name was reportedly mentioned from the pulpit as one that should be held at arms length so that my "leaven" would not effect the whole lump.

And those things hurt.

I got over that. It was a decade ago. God has healed my soul and my heart, and has given me true friends who are there for me and my wife any time... any day. We have a wonderful ministry of house churching. God has opened doors for us to minister in local prisons and food pantry's and rescue missions. God has done a new thing in my life.

And so when I come across someone like Ben... my heart gets ripped out. It's like he is on one side of the Jordan, and I'm on the other. I know the truth about the land on this side, but he can't see it yet. But I've been on his side of the river, and I know the danger that is over there. And make no mistake... WOF is spiritual danger in the highest degree. But he doesnt see it. And thats where my passion for this comes from.


 2007/2/22 7:46

Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


Lets face it
Some of you need to get to know God as more than the genie healing machine
and others you need to cry out for God to show you He is a divine physician

 2007/2/22 8:53Profile


Some of you need to get to know God as more than the genie healing machine and others you need to cry out for God to show you He is a divine physician

... and what do you need to do? 8-)

I'd be real careful about making declarations like that about folks here. Just some friendly advice. You dont know what God is doing or not doing in people's lives here.

It's one thing to challenge someone's theology... it's another to prescribe (in a blanket statement) that people are lacking in their walk with God.

And no, I'm not responding out of defense for myself. "If the shoe fits, wear it" is how I approach things here, and in this particular instance concerning this issue... your shoe didnt fit me. I'm just looking out for my brothers and sisters on this thread.


 2007/2/22 9:07

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