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Goldminer
Member



Joined: 2006/11/7
Posts: 1178
Alabama

 Re: Myles Munroe

I have read this entire thread and the only thing I would like to add is you will know them by their fruit and know them that labor amoung you.

It is very difficult to know a TV preacher. You only see what the view finder shows you. How do they live their lives?

When I watch these men and women I am looking for more than words, I am looking for character. Do they speak with humility and brokeness or are they arrogant and cocky? Does their heart bleed for the lost, is that evidenced in what comes across.

I will tell you a forinstance. I saw Tommy Tenney on TBN one night and he was pleading with the audience about intimacy with God being the main thing we need. The host kept changing the subject and finally Tommy wept because of the condition of the body of Christ. His brokeness was very evident. It wasn't fake.

I have to say I can barely watch "Christian" TV any more. It is so boastful and arrogant for the most part. I see very little of the "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls", type of christianity. In fact most of it makes me sick.

I will not dog a fellow believer however, but I will say we need to see what image they project. Is the fruit of the spirit manifest through their teaching?

[color=6600CC]Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [/color]
[color=6600CC]Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. [/color]

I also have a problem with many of these ministries milking the sheep to line their own pockets. How much is enough? How big is a big enough house, how many changes of clothes are enough? I am not saying this because I want to sit on my money, I love to give where God leads.

I went to a church where K.P. Yohannan of the "Gospel for Asia" spoke. In his testimony he shared how God brought him up short about all the stuff he had. Rolex, dozens of suits, etc,etc, etc. God asked him what he needed all that stuff for. Now he uses all his excess for the furtherence of the gospel. That is what the church must return to. The church, and not just TV preachers, must return to being stewards of what God has given us. We must return to loving others enough to give till it hurts, but not to consume it on our own lusts. We are way out of balance and we are injuring the church. TV preachers excess is causing the world to look on christians as a bunch of money grubbing shysters. I am sorry but I can't see Jesus in a five hundred dollar suit with a dimond pinky ring when there are hungry all around him. Please don't say I am jealous of what they have because I have everything I really need and that is the point. How much do they really need and how much is too much.

[color=6600CC]1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. [/color]

[color=6600CC]Hbr 13:5 [Let your] conversation [be] without covetousness; [and be] content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. [/color]

Enough said.


_________________
KLC

 2007/2/8 1:11Profile
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:


I’m not writing this to tear anyone up , but I know it is the truth. So many times I have heard someone say that our church teaches the bible correctly and we hold to what the bible says when in fact they are really saying is we hold to what we interpret the bible to say. Much of what they say to me is correct, but I always seem to hear something that I know is not if I talk to them long enough. I call this being a clone of their church and not being able to hear the Holy Spirit in an independent way from hearing men speak. Almost every one that I know is a clone in some way, including my closest friends. I’ve found this out by being a clone myself in many ways and at many different times in my somewhat long Christian walk. It can hinder your growth for a long time if you let it and keep you from reaching out and loving those who God would have you love and forgive.

Just yesterday, I was speaking to some one the Lord had me call on the phone. His name kept coming up on my mind and I became worried that he was in trouble so I called. Everything was ok, but there was need for protection to be prayed for. During our conversation he said a couple of things that were from being around different things that he’s heard from probable different teachers that were cloned ideas. This really doesn’t bother me to much because I expect to hear this stuff from people. What I am really trying to say now is that our overall conversation was a great blessing to me at the time since I could see past all this cloning and hear what the Lord is doing in his life. This man who is in his 50's probably was at one time demon possessed and is now a Christian of under 10 years, has opened up his house to some very destitute people, one of whom I’ve known since childhood. Many of these people have no where to go and even some of the local government people are coming to him and asking him if he can put some one up. When they come he only asks them to treat the house as if it was their parents house and clean up after themselves.

So my clone friend, do you reach out the unlovely? Do you visit those that are sick or in prison? Do you consider others before yourself? Are the poor, widowed, and orphaned on you mind? Are you merciful and full of grace for all? Do you forgive those that have hurt you? Are you meek, and humble or just proud of what you believe to be true and can true revelation still change a cloned idea that you have? Are you a peacemaker or do you just spend time making war with your words with people you don’t agree with? Do you mourn for others to the point of travailing prayer who are in obvious sin or do you just write them off because your opinion differs?

By the way, if I look at all like Charles Finney or Hudson Taylor am I invited into your church?

In love with Jesus,
GaryE


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Gary Eckenroth

 2007/2/8 4:11Profile
Provost
Member



Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


 Re:


Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

When I first read that verse I thought that the signs and wonders would probably have to be pretty aweseome to seduce the elect. Now I see all that really is needed to throw Christians off course is a message on your purpose and potential and authority; without ever exalting the King of Kings. Anyone who wants to follow other gospels go have fun with your wood, gold, and hay. B/c when you look at the truths of the blood of Jesus Christ, the humility of Paul, how Christ holds all things together while interceding for you, and the hope of our future glory, you want nothing to do with cheap imitations. I know I can no longer get upset. I know I am young but I am telling you I've see it. The Holy Spirit has shown me dross-less truths. I am not saying I know more or something deeper, I am just saying truths. This is not a doctrinal issue or even a personality issue this is a Gospel issue. And I am telling you beg Him to show you His truths of the Gospel, b/c once you have even tasted one you will not stand for an imitation ever again.
I Regress
God Bless

 2007/2/8 9:28Profile
John173
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 289
Omaha

 Re: Myles Munroe

The following is a link to the current thread titled "movies". There is an interesting story, third post down, from tjservant, that is surprisingly relevant to this discussion.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=14584&forum=35&9

Another scripture to point out on this is:

[color=000099][font=Georgia]2Cr 11:13-15 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. [/font][/color]

This is my last comment on this topic, I will not be returning to this thread myself to read responses to this. The warning regarding this garbage has been put out there by several of the brethren. The evidence that these "teachers" are false is overwhelming. If you choose to continue to drink from a poisoned stream, so be it. I pray that we all come to a recognition of this and turn away from even listening to them. the deception can be very subtle, especially to those young in the faith.

Yours truly,
Contending for the faith,
and as always,
In His Love,

Doug


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Doug Fussell

 2007/2/8 10:16Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Provost

Quote:
This is not a doctrinal issue or even a personality issue this is a Gospel issue. And I am telling you beg Him to show you His truths of the Gospel, b/c once you have even tasted one you will not stand for an imitation ever again.



and He has bro. i don't go for the okie-doke. that's why i filter it all through God and His word. that way anything which is miscommunicated, perverted or twisted is perfected before i take it in.

let us remember that we ourselves have not always shown perfect character not taught rightly always. we've had people that we have spoken to or taught (to tell someone something he doesn't know is to teach) who have had to filter what we have said so that what we've misunderstood, miscommunicated or mangled purposefully or not is seen in its true context.

i was just thinking yesterday and i realized that i don't know much about some of these people, their theologies and so on. don't know what a calvanist or araminean is or what dominion theology is. i feel that works to my advantage as i have no bias for or against anyone so when they speak my mind is open. i seek God and his word to see if there is any truth in what is said. whatever truth there is i hold on to. the lies i toss. i find most saints aren't like that and miss out on many things which God could have clarified if it were not for the bias against whoever has spoken. i don't subscribe to everything Paula White has ever said but i have learned from God through her, i don't agree with everything ravenhill said but i have learned from God through him also. i'll admit sometimes i wonder if we ever see any of the wrongs we have done and think they are not as bad as the next mans...at the end of the day though the same Spirit which is in me is in you working out God's plan. we all stumble sometimes but bless God that He works all things to the good of those He has called and that He is determined to finish this good work which He has begun in us!

God bless you bro


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Farai Bamu

 2007/2/8 11:38Profile
KGP
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Joined: 2007/2/25
Posts: 1


 Re:

I read a book by Myles Monroe "Rediscovering the Kingdom" and I would defiantly recommend it to anyone. It was really an eye opener to me, I no longer see myself as a Christian, but rather as a citizen of the Kingdom of God. It is interesting to notice that the Christian church focuses so much on Jesus Christ, that they completely miss Jesus' message, i.e. "The Kingdom of God". If you read the 4 gospels you'll notice that Jesus also had a ministry, he went from village to village, from city to city and he had only one message, the message was NOT "The gospel of Jesus Christ" but "The gospel of The Kingdom of God". In fact the word gospel actually means "good news", so Jesus preached "The good news of the Kingdom of God". So what is this kingdom all about that Jesus talked about so much?. Well this book "Rediscovering the Kingdom" attempts to explain just that.

 2007/2/25 5:30Profile
Dan777
Member



Joined: 2007/2/7
Posts: 21


 Re:

I totally agree with 'KGP'! I too read that book! Jesus message was about the Kingdom of God.

A word of defense on the WOF movement: Being Word Faith is not wrong. Some the preachers have misrepresented it, and put a bad taste in peoples mouths. but to put your faith in what God said is NOT wrong.

How does one get saved? He believes what the Word says (Romans 10:17). That is Word Faith in a nutshell!

Word Faith is in the bible: Josh 1:8, and the whole 119th Psalm is about the Word and taking heed to it. The rich young ruler (Matt 19:20-22), said he had kept all the commandments (law) from his youth. Well, put 2 and 2 together, Deut 28:1-14 pronounces a blessing of prosperity on all who keep the law. So how did the rich young ruler get his great possessions? He kept the law - what God said!

The Word says I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, so I am not going to say anything less than that about myself. Now, don't get your hackles up, I said; I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, not in myself. There is a big difference. I am the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD, in Christ! Anything less than God's righteousness would NOT allow me into His presence!

We need to drop the 'sinner saved by grace' mentally and renew our minds (Rom 12:2) to who we are IN CHRIST!

The Word says; I'm healed, 1Pet2:24. If I take my stand on that Word, my body will line up with it. (Rom 8:11)

The Word says; I'm delivered from the power of Darkess, Col 1:13. That means the devil is rendered powerless where I am concerned, but I have to submit myself to the Word and resist the devil (James 4:7).

The Word says, Christ redeemed me from the curse of the Law, and that I am now under the blessing of Abraham Gal 3:13. I means I am not cursed and cannot be cursed! I'm blessed period!

I could go on and on!

Some of the WOF preachers may be messed up, the concept of standing on the Word is not!

Dan

 2007/2/25 7:19Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Faith

Quote:
Word Faith is in the bible: Josh 1:8, and the whole 119th Psalm is about the Word and taking heed to it. The rich young ruler (Matt 19:20-22), said he had kept all the commandments (law) from his youth. Well, put 2 and 2 together, Deut 28:1-14 pronounces a blessing of prosperity on all who keep the law. So how did the rich young ruler get his great possessions? He kept the law - what God said!



That's a bit of a reach there especially since those very riches were those that had taken his heart and disqualified him from entering the kingdom. Jesus kept the law and had nowhere to lay His head ...
Quote:
We need to drop the 'sinner saved by grace' mentally and renew our minds (Rom 12:2) to who we are IN CHRIST!


On the contrary, the matter is not one of droping one for the other but recognizing both.
Quote:
The Word says; I'm healed, 1Pet2:24. If I take my stand on that Word, my body will line up with it. (Rom 8:11)


This is classic WOF theology. Read 1 Peter in it's context, it has nothing to do with physical healing whatsoever... [i]When yo do good and suffer... for to this you were called[/i] as only partial to take note of, the context of this in in being submissive regardless of treatment by their master, of enduring, patiently, it is appealing to modeling after Jesus Himself ([i]as an example[/i]), suffering without reviling ... [i]"that [u]we[/u], having died to sins, might live for righteousness - "[/i]

[i]Then[/i] comes the line outsourced from Isaiah. It is very peculiar that the very emphesis used by Peter here explaining what is meant by [i]His stripes[/i] and our 'healing' is lost or rather made to mean something other than it's original intention. There is any number of posts dedicated to this matter elsewhere but this is an idea totaly bankrupt from it's intentions. Romans 8:11 ... These are spiritual truths not 'physical' attributes, again the context here.

Dan, what might escape you here is how much these things taught in this fashion are just plain presumptous. "Standing on the Word" by making it mean what it does not say nor intend and teaching others as well, is at the very core of this heretical 'movement'. Some of us here were well entrenched in all of this in former days and the concept is not furthered any better by dismissing the more outlandish from the seemingly subtle.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/2/25 10:35Profile
Dan777
Member



Joined: 2007/2/7
Posts: 21


 Re:

crsschk:

The Word of God is life to those that find it and health to all their flesh. Proverbs 4:22

The Word of God and is quick (alive) and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword...Heb 4:12

I have found real life and victory by applying the Word of God to my everyday life.

Dan

 2007/2/25 15:06Profile
Provost
Member



Joined: 2006/12/28
Posts: 117


 Re:

Quote:

It was really an eye opener to me, I no longer see myself as a Christian, but rather as a citizen of the Kingdom of God. It is interesting to notice that the Christian church focuses so much on Jesus Christ, that they completely miss Jesus' message, i.e. "The Kingdom of God".



I think it's also really funny how a lot of gnostics feel the same way. I mean it's not about Jesus...it's about His kingdom and the knowledge of His message. Satan is the only one who wants the church to get away from Jesus centered messages.

 2007/2/27 9:05Profile





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