| Poster | Thread | Rahman
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| | GOD KILLS ... | |
Bro's Krispy and Ironman ...
i've been told that my thinking is often way to pounderous and just no fun ... :-?
Hey so be it, but this is the way i think on spiritual matters especially ... Donovan McNabb's favorite answer for what he wants out of the game of football is "to just go out there and have fun" ... Ughhhhh ... The dude makes way to much paper for such a flippant answer, and apparently understands nothing about the essence of a game that's supposed to be played by "gridiron gladiators" ... :-P
Anyhow i was thinking about what you guys said in particular about WWII and the Holocaust under the title: Reasoning Together - and man could i identify with it for when we start trying to look at such horrible events from His perspective (ponderous thinking) i believe that's when He begins to reason with us ...
i remember an Elie Weisel interview where he just bemoaned how could he believe in a God that would allow such slaughter of Holocaust Jews ... To tell you the truth his reasoning angered me, and i thought "How could he even fix his mouth to say such a thing, don't he know his own history? ... and "Does he really think that Germany was the first gentile nation God used in killing Jews?" ... All mankind in one way or the other catches hell after the fall, but after God put His name on Israel, Israel caught (as my Mom would say) "pure-t-hell" when they stepped outside God ... Same with us Christians ...
God kills whom He chooses individually or massively, our Bible is full of God killing ... He kills those heathens who are out of His favor ... He kills those who are His chosen if they fall out of His favor (by His own hand or at the hand of others), the entire history of the Jews proves that ... He's even capable of killing NT saints as in the case of Ananias & Sapphira ... And is capable of allowing even His faithful chosen to be killed by others if it fits into His plan and will bring Him glory ...
Now a lot of folk will ask, "How can a loving God do/allow such things?" ... When i'm at loggerheads with a question about God i always conclude that the fault is with me because God is never at fault, so i can only say that apparently our definition of "God's love" is not His definition ...
Could God have done things any differently than He's done thru out human history, so that we wouldn't have killing, murder, wars, and debates about whether saints should or should not fight in them? ... Apparently not ... That's why i thank God that no matter what we think, don't think, agree or dis-agree on, His plan just keeps on marching on" ...
i think about when satan went against God, which was before the fall of man (tho i believe Adam's creation was why satan went against God) ... Before the fall the contest was between God and satan, to me like a one on one cosmic game of 21 ... But after the fall Adam changed that game to a cosmic game of chess with God and satan manuvering us as chess pieces thruout our history, and so we kill and are killed ... It's just funny to me how we "pieces" somehow think that we're playing our own game/strategy, and that all our human triumphs and failures all have to do with us ...
My Dad told me all the time there's no such thing as man's definition of freedom, that we either are under God's yoke or the devil's ... And as you said bro Krispy;
"As far as the Hitler thing goes, I believe firmly that as incredibly horrible as all that was, God was at work. He was on the throne."
i believe the same thing with this war in Iraq, tho in my spirit i feel this one to be far more instrumental in bringing about what God has in store for us next ... From your post bro Krisp i'm wondering now if WWII's outcome was to move Israel back into a place God wanted them, will (as i suspect) the outcome of what's going on now move His Church (particularly here in America) back to where He wants us?
Time will tell!
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|  2006/12/1 9:15 | Profile | roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: GOD KILLS ... | | Quote:
if a Christian isn't willing to kill to defend Christianity, why would they kill for anything less?
Interesting logic. Im just wondering, if we set out to kill all who stand in opposition to Christ, not matter what the cost, should we not begin on the home front starting in our churches. Judgment begins in the house of God, after all. And, lets admit, the house of God has done much damage to the cause of Christ. Shouldnt we get rid of them first?
Jesus said, He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. Matthew 12:30 In other words, you cant be on both sides - you can't bring people into the kingdom, and also scatter them (what happens when they don't find the Shepherd). How many of our troops and military leaders are offering their lives to kill for the Lords sake and to bring souls into God's kingdom? If they have any other motive, then how can they be on the Lords side?
If we could kill off all those who stand in opposition to Christ, how many would be left on this planet? And would we then finally be left with a godly Christian community?
Why should I even want to defend Christianity? Look at all the evil it has perpetrated throughout history: Constantines Christianity, inquisition, the witch burning, the neo-cons (yes, I just learned a new word) Look at all that bad reputation that Christianity has developed, and still is.
Just some unconventional thoughts
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Diane
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| | 2006/12/1 10:30 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Interesting to me that Jesus will return with the armies of Heaven... and He will single handedly crush the armies of the world.
Oh, wait... that doesnt fit our version of the peace & love hippie Jesus.
When Jesus returns, He will be a warrior. And He will rule and reign.
Krispy |
| | 2006/12/1 10:36 | | adamdawkins
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| | | 2006/12/1 10:41 | Profile | PreachParsly
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| | Re: | | Quote:
Interesting to me that Jesus will return with the armies of Heaven... and He will single handedly crush the armies of the world.
And what will He use to do that?
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Josh Parsley
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| | 2006/12/1 10:52 | Profile | Rahman
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| | "Kill em all and let God sort em out" ... | |
Sis D ... How's one of my favorite people on SI? ... :-D
Sis D you wrote;
"Just some unconventional thoughts"
See this is my main point, your/our/my thoughts aren't unconventional at all ... They're thoughts that are part of ?'s that we puny humans/saints ponder over ad-nauseum and ad-infinitum on such topics as this ... WHILE HIS WILL/PLAN/TRUTH JUST KEEPS MARCHING ON, no matter what conclusions we come to, or whom we judge can't possibly be of Christ, or Christian, by some of the choices made ... While in the meantime some Christians bear arms, others conscienciously object
If God kills, allows killing, and uses human's killing humans to His ultimate end, then it seems to me that not only might some saints be killed, but might kill others people in such duties as soldiering, as is apparently the case ...
Who truly is saved, or not, i leave that up to God, as we all got our own walks to deal with, with all the ambiguities in tow ...
War is as cruel as the expression "Kill em all and let God sort em out" ... i think this is exactly what happens in wars ...
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| | 2006/12/1 11:25 | Profile | IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
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IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| | Re: | | bro Preach P
with a sword!Rev 19
[b]11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.[/b]
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Farai Bamu
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| | 2006/12/1 12:18 | Profile | PreachParsly
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| | Re: | | Quote:
with a sword!Rev 19
But it comes out of his mouth. I don't think he is going to physically fight.
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Josh Parsley
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| | 2006/12/1 13:47 | Profile | roadsign
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| | Re: The sword is poised! | | You guys are right: there is a place for the sword! In fact, Jesus allowed the disciples to have two (though they wanted to keep more).
Just two swords, mind you, no more! Apparently last year the nations of the world, led by the US, china, Russia, and Israel spend more than $3 trillion on weapons. And yet, if Gideon only needed three hundred common soldiers why do we need more? Do we lack faith? Isnt the sword in our Lords mouth strong enough?
Fellows, whats so inadequate about the weapons that God has provided (Eph. 6)? Is that only for the flower children and frail wimps like me? Or for those in persecuted countries who have not a hope in the world of conquering their enemy?
Quote:
If God kills, allows killing, and uses human's killing humans to His ultimate end, then it seems to me that not only might some saints be killed, but might kill others people in such duties as soldiering, as is apparently the case ...
Rahman, my brother, I agree with you, God does indeed mete out judgment via the sword of man and even saints perish. He is sovereign. However, woe to those through whom judgment is meted out. Jesus said, ultimately "...all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Matt. 26:52 I think that this refers to those who depend on their sword...... $3 trillian!.... Obviously some people trust in the sword.
Do you believe that judgment could fall our way as a result of our trust in the sword? Did that not happen to Assyria and Babylon (God's instruments of judgment), and later to beloved Israel (70AD) Who are we westerners to think were better than any of them?
Of course, Im just a puny human being with a very limited view of the world. But then arent we all. I think we would do well to remember that our God can knock us out of existence in a breath. Even the most powerful weapon is smaller than a matchstick to him. He can blow it over with a wisp of his breath.
Id be most concerned about our real enemy: God. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Heb. 10:31 We have been unfaithful. Let us repent before its too late! For the sword of divine judgment is poised over us, ready to strike.
(see Jeremiah 13:15-27)
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Diane
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| | 2006/12/1 15:28 | Profile | IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
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IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| | Re: | | bro PreachP
Quote:
But it comes out of his mouth.
ok, what's your point? :-?
Quote:
I don't think he is going to physically fight
how do you figure that?not asking in a spirit of contention but am curious as to how you got to that conclusion. it seems to me that this sword which procedes from His mouth will smite the remnant of that army of the enemy and kill them so that the birds of the air will come and eat them. seems physical to me. anyhow the bottom line is whether or not Christ will swing His head from side to side with the sword cutting people open, or whether the sword is the word of our Lord and He will speak to the enemy's men and they will burst open is of no consequence, there will be physical blood everywhere.he may fight or not, that's up to Him. i figure since He physically died, He will physically fight, nonetheless we shall see on that day!!!
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Farai Bamu
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| | 2006/12/3 13:06 | Profile |
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