Amen Krispy,

A thoughtful post...for Christ Jesus suffered and was raised from the dead, and is now at the Father's right side...He died for sinners...ALL sinners...May I be obedient to pray for whom the Spirit leads me to pray for...And by the way, I wish I had half the musical talent these guys have...well, to a certain extent that is ;-)
The Lord continually bless you Krispy,
richie

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Richie

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Richie

What I wouldnt give to be as eloquent as Mike!

I think my perceived softness on people like Dickinson, Dio... even Ozzy... is because I really feel a tremendous sorrow for them. I dont feel much sympathy for Hinn and others because they should know better. They have the truth in their hands, yet they reject it.

What an intelligent and well spoken gentleman Ronnie James Dio is (for those who dont know, Dio replaced Ozzy as lead singer for Black Sabbath for a couple of years)... and I see people like that I think "How can they be so intelligent, yet so blind?"

Bands like Guns-n-Roses... not much going on intellectually with [i]those[/i] guys... but some of these guys in rock music are very intelligent people. Very well spoken. And perhaps because back in the day I did worship them I now have a burden for them.

It wouldnt matter to me if Eddie Van Halen ever played another note... wouldnt it be wonderful to see him surrender to Christ? Wouldnt it be wonderful to see Nicko McBain put his sticks down and walk away from Iron Maiden?

I know Stryper draws mixed feelings from the Christian community... and thank God they finally ditched the bumble-bee suits, hairspray & make-up... But I remember back around 1985 or so reading an interview with Motley Crue, and they were on tour with who else? Stryper. Stryper was opening for them on a few dates. I knew of Stryper, heard some of their stuff. Didnt pay much attention to them... they looked to pretty to be guys, ya know. But one comment Vince Neil made I'll never forget. They were talking about partying, and girls lining up after the show for alcohol and sex... and the interviewer asked Vince if Stryper ever joined them. Vince said something like "No man, they're boring dudes! They're 'born agains', so they go to their bus and drink milk or something... sing Kumbya... pray. But they are cool guys."

Now... Stryper probably got criticized in some circles for being unequally yoked with Motley Crue and some other secular metal bands... and Stryper now admits (now that they have matured in their walk with the Lord) that they didnt always live out thier witness perfectly (who does?). But they had an impact on someone who has lived an incredibly debauched lifestyle. Vince Neil. Who else in the church could have gotten close enough to Vince Neil to be a witness to him? Who else? In that respect, love 'em or hate 'em... Stryper were missionaries to the lost.

... and the church sat back and criticized them.

What was the church doing to reach Vince Neil? Or Twisted Sister... Maiden... Ratt... Skid Row... WASP... Quiet Riot...Guns-n-Roses... Cinderella... Krokus...?

I tell you, Stryper did more to reach those people than anyone in the church. I'm not saying the ends justify the means. Personally, I think Stryper should have looked more like men than they did... and backed off of the spandex... but the fact is, they were in the middle of it, and they took a stand for Christ. Everyone in the metal community who brushed shoulders with those guys [b]knew[/b] there was something different about the way they lived their lives. Interview after interview with other bands, I heard the same things being said about Stryper. "Their different."

How many people say that about us? How many people are we reaching in the metal community? Any? I wonder... when was the last time you went to an outdoor metal fest and handed out tracts in the crowd? Or is it too loud for your ears?

Instead of condemning musical styles, get over it and get out there and find people in that lifestyle and be a witness.

Krispy

First of all let me apologize to any that I offended with my first post, Krispy, sorry man, I did not intentially single you out, and I am sorry, I took a phrase that hit me wrong without examaning the context of the conversation. Forgive me. I’m usually not one to simply jump the gun and respond to something ½ cocked.
Secondly, Krispy Wrote: For those of you who very vocally come out against Iron Maiden, Elton John, etc... when was the last time you spent time on your knees praying for their salvation?

I ask that of myself as well. When I come out strongly against Joyce Meyer, or Warren, or Hinn... whoever it may be... have I also been on my knees praying for them? Most of the time, yes, but sadly... not always”

Thank You for that Steve! That, I think was the point I was trying to make, yet I allowed my anger to respond rather than my heart.

See, here’s the skinny, I’m a musician, I have been for 10 years. I love to play, I’ve only known playing in the house of the Lord, to the Lord. I have never taken a lesson, it just happened one night and has grown.
In some circles, my instrument is simply tolerated, others it is a called the a tool of the devil and I am seen as a sinner for even wanting to play, still in some it is celebrated. If you haven’t guessed, I’m a drummer.
Music is extremely personal to me. Wether you believe it or not, music does influence us in ways that nothing else can. It can move us to tears, serves as proper motivation to bench 305, it can be the boost that causes us to run the full 5 miles before we cash in. So when I think about the discussions that go on about it, sometimes it makes me angry, because like Eric Lindell, I can sense God’s pleasure when I play. No matter if it’s Hillsong, The Hinsons, Pillar or Promise Keepers.
So, I get a little standoffish, when it comes to music, those of you who play might understand. So I’m sorry for my reaction. Let us pray for all of those who are in the field of Rock and roll from Abba to Zappa, they need it.
As for the judging, your right, no here has ever judged weather someone else is saved, that is God alone’s decision. However can we all agree that we can judge, yes we’re even required to judge the Spirit behind the music, CCM or not, what Spirit it driving the tunes?
I’ll probably bow out for awhile again, until I can learn to think before I type. Peace and Grace! D~

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David

not saying that we should judge someone's salvation, but, you can surely know if one is a christian by their fruit. didn't paul say that some have fallen away from the faith. that sounds like judging someone's life in Christ. seeing if they are really of Christ or not. you can look at someone's life and speech and know if they are truly in the faith.

2 Timothy 4:10


10 for Demas has forsaken me, [b]having loved this present world[/b], and has departed for Thessalonica—Crescens for Galatia, Titus for Dalmatia.

you can look at a someone's life and see that they love this present world more than God. just like paul saw that in demas.

not only are you suppose to judge teaching, but also christian's lifestyle. if it is not according to Christ, we are not suppose to fellowship with them.

1 Corinthians 5:11


11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

1 John 2:15
Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

well this verse exposes a lot of christian bands. you can tell that many christian bands are in it for themselves and that they do love the world. it is very obviouse, but many christians are so blind to the harlotry of most muscians because they love their music.

if you can tell that people are using Jesus name for their fame, why support them by buying their music. this should grieve us to where we do not even want to buy their stuff.

yes, i agree lets pray for these rock stars like ozzy and them, but we also should be immensly grieve with their lifestyle that is loudly agaist Christ. the sad thing is, a lot of christians are so into their music and talents that it blinds them to the lostness of their souls( muscians), where they are not broken for them, because they take delight in their music and talented gifts. i feel for muscians. many are lost and i believe that a lot of christians don't pray for them because their busy enjoying their music that it has blind them to the heart of these lost souls.

yes, some might be intellectual, but it is worldly intellect that profits to NOTHING. human wisdom is dung and should not be look upon as something great. it doesn't matter how smart someone is because human intellect is prideful and about self. if they were so smart they would see that even their itellect is dung and leads to nothing and would be seeking Christ.

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Lisa

...not to distract from the flow but needed 2 seconds to notice this...

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Mike Compton

Still quite interesting reading through all this. Paul, I do agree and would think Steve would just as well with what you have brought forth here. Seems different in perspective, the intelligence that Krispy (Steve) is alluding to is almost paradoxical ... Isn't one of the detriment's to a lot of what is passing for the sheer reality of scriptural truth in our day very much a lack of just [i]thinking[/i]? Not the measure on a grading scale of intellect, but ... Let me try it this way, the differences Krispy pointed out for instance between say Twisted Sister and Rush (I know, we have touched on this earlier) and that of an easy believism from ... anybody and a Tozer or a Chambers. This sort of contemplation, (Strange it is that Dee Synder seemed to be pretty articulate off stage ... another thing that needs to be caught, bit of acting there in a lot of this.)

Quickly, Krispy, a great deal in common from our respective era's and think you have really expressed a great deal very well, Stryper without a doubt had a very huge impact on me, they were something of a bridge while I wrestled between a growing urgency to know God and hang on or try and make sense of what at the time I thought was my goal in life, to be a guitarist and a 'Rock Star', more on the former than the latter. Strange times, but the Lord through Stryper did get quite a bit in at even the subconscious level. Your retelling about their progression was dead on accurate. Great stuff brother.

To move the pendulum back a bit more to where Paul is speaking from and alluded to how many other aspects there are yet still to all of this.

Pride. There is something very inherent in this that sits perhaps under the radar, that desire for accolades and applause, that want of being noticed, [i]loved[/i] by adoring fans ... to [i]feel[/i] that, to hear it redounding in our ears of ones 'greatness' for natural giftings that have been developed or even developed efforts that can equal the same occasionally. How much of this is still yet evident in the 'crossover' culture that finds a borrowing and stealing of the same thing from 'Christian' to secular? Hard to make that dogmatic across the board, someone like Stryper in their hey day, a guess is a mixture of both and could almost but wonder at how much they had to work through to get to where they later ended up. A great deal of processing must go on in this walk, a great deal of [i]thinking[/i], is this not the most intelligent intelligence there is that we adhere to? Christianity is intelligence of the highest sort, seems absurd to even have to make mention of it. What kind of intellect is it that confounds the wise and the wisdom of this world? Do very much appreciate where Paul is going with this and found a lot of the same truth in;

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Mike Balog