Mike C

Matt... welcome to the site! Glad to have you.

I'm going to take issue with several things you said. Please understand that I don't like hard core metal, grind core, whatever they call it. Never liked thrash... or rap... or the elevator music that CCM top 40 has become... so I'm not coming from a defensive position on this at all. I'll be honest, I do like melodic metal. But I also like jazz, classical and bluegrass. I just want to say that up front.

You talk a lot about idols, and truly Christians have made idols of CCM performers. People have also made idols of Billy Graham, DL Moody, etc. But I'm not going to condemn DL Moody because many have made an idol of him. People made an idol of Keith Green... and he chewed them out for it. An idol doesn't usually declare itself an idol... people do.

Paul was questioned extensively about eating meat that was sacrificed to idols. His response was two-fold. He declared there is one God, and idols were nothing. The only value they have is what people give them. So, therefore, meat was meat regardless of what some people did with it. For example, in India, they believe cows are reincarnations of dead people, and they worship them. They would never consider eating them. I say... let's have steak! You see nothing wrong with eating a cow, and you probably don't think twice that on the other side of the world... it's consider sacred.

Thats how I look at music. I did give up music for a period of time. It was huge in my life. Only over the past 5 years have I been allowed by the Holy Spirit to listen to certain styles of music. I don't idolize the music, I don't give it priority in my life. It doesn't rule me. And I realize that for some... it is a real issue.

That brings us to Paul's second point about meat. If someone is offended by our freedom to eat steak (and by offended he meant caused to stumble in their walk with the Lord), then out of love the one who has freedom should restrain themselves from flaunting their freedom.

So if you were at my house, and I knew that some styles of music might cause you to stumble... I wouldn't put on X-Sinner. Just like if someone had freedom to have a beer now and then, they would be a fool to exercise that freedom in front of someone who struggled with alcoholism before they were saved.

You stated that your God is not a violent God... I wonder, have you read the OT? Or how about the Book of the Revelation? You're God has the capacity to be extremely violent. We all need to fear His wrath.

Krispy

Well its been a few months, almost a year since i posted on this web site and with good cause. I am amazed at the fact that so many that have posted on this thread use the "i don't judge" philosphy on the musicians of Iron Madien and the like, but will call men like Rick Warren and Benny Hinn apostates and continually run them in the ground. Where is our head at? No corrupt communication should leave our mouths but only that which is edifying...none should enter our ears. hate to say folks but theres a bit of a double standard going on here. maybe we should spend a little less time asking what's wrong with rock music and ask our sevles, "what's right abot it?" God is passionate for His glory to shine in our lives, are we? D~

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David

Hi Richie,

Sigh ... (A happy sigh). Back a few replies there was a mention or two towards this, with Neil and a mention of the dangers of assuming too much ... Hopefully, we are all getting a bit better at this style of communicating but still, realize I can add my own fodder here. As I mentioned to our brother Neil, there is a launching off into 'generalizations' and "[i]Not trying to be pointed or accusatory, just food for thought.[/i]"


There is the great "of course" of the matter... Richie, something I am beginning to notice and have had pointed out, is a tendency at times to 'talk in shadows', not always being quite clear. Recognize it more and more, think I may start off at a point and get lost along the way, dropping out details, not filling out others, have this apparently strange ability to have 10 different thoughts running concurrently but, lacking the ability to draw them together cohesively. Besides that, am just plain long-winded! :-)

So no, dear brother it was not to those ends...

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Mike Balog

([i]edit: Forgot the quote;[/i])

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Mike Balog

Krispy stole some of my same reaction;

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Mike Balog

... I said I wouldn't judge the salvation of Iron Maiden's drummer. Thats between him and God. Do I think he should continue on with them? Absolutely not.

Have I condoned Iron Maiden? Absolutely not. I just called for some intellectual honesty.

As for Hinn and Warren... here's a challenge. Find one post out of over 2,000 posts I've made where I judged their salvation. I have not. In fact, I've made it clear that I do not sit in judgement of their salvation.

However, we are commanded in scripture to judge their teachings against scripture, and I do so.

If you're gonna say I said something, at least get it right.

Krispy

Thanks for the reply Mike. You know, I wonder if Niko was preached a "synthetic Gospel" like I first was....that the law is done away with,etc, etc..."Don't be so serious Richie", many would say to me. I wasted so many years Mike not taking God seriously.
I just wanted to say, it's pretty much a "given" for me to say that I'm probably the "chiefest of sinners" out of all that participate in these forums...and I indeed am not bragging when I mention this, but say this to my shame.
If the Lord really wants to use Niko as an instrument of righteousness to glorify Him, then Praise God brother. His thoughts are surely higher than mine!
Years ago, I thought how great it would be if the Lord met Ozzy like He did Saul on the road to Damascus...I would remember him in my prayers, but I haven't now for long while...this is probably to my shame too.
May I say Mike that I respect your opinion, and I love you as a brother. Feel free to rebuke me openly or privately whenever the Lord puts it on your heart...for I have much to learn and much to be thankful for, and honestly there are times when I forget these great truths...again to my shame.
As far as inotof's comment is concerned, I would like to say this: I will only speak for myself concerning the matter of judging righteously and unrighteously. I know that their is a great difference...one that is of the heart, is of motive...one is carnal, one is of God, etc. I love the book of James because he calls it as led by the Holy Spirit. I am sure some back in his day disapproved of his rebukes, while others would respond as the psalmist in Psalm 141:5. Regardless, Godly rebuke is necessary ...I praise God for it because I continually need it in order to keep on the path of the straight and narrow. Others more educated than myself can speak of this subject in a more concise matter. I agree much of what is documented in:[url=http://cicministry.org/commentary/issue94.htm]Discernment In An Age Of Disception[/url]. Truly sheep can be naive concerning this issue, but that's why Godly leadership is so important, and honestly there's not alot of that in the world, which is why it is important to have a "berean-like" mentality concerning the deep truths of the Scriptures. If I'm a "little toe" I need an "eye" to tell me "Sripturely" which way I'm going, etc lest I fall into some ditch. I need the Truth that sets me free regardless of what it will cost me!...And I thank God for it even if it makes me suffer. Pray that I don't run from the crosses the King of Kings asks me to carry. As the saints of old used to say like William Penn and John Owen, "No Cross, No Crown."
Have a blessed day in the Lord Mike,
richie

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Richie

Here's a question for all of us... myself included.

For those of you who very vocally come out against Iron Maiden, Elton John, etc... when was the last time you spent time on your knees praying for their salvation?

I ask that of myself as well. When I come out strongly against Joyce Meyer, or Warren, or Hinn... whoever it may be... have I also been on my knees praying for them? Most of the time, yes, but sadly... not always.

Ozzy is not the enemy. (I wish he was cuz I don't think he could fight his way out of paper bag) Benny Hinn is not the enemy. They are used of the enemy, but they are just pawns. We need to keep that in mind. I've seen Iron Maiden lead singer Bruce Dickinson interviewed in the past... he's a gentleman, and very well spoken. Misguided and lost to be sure... but when you hear someone like that speak you realize... they are being used, but they are not the enemy. During my short chats with the former drummer of Skynyrd he was always very polite and friendly. A very warm hearted guy. He's just a man.

Let's be focussed on the real enemy, Satan.

Let's pray for those we're discussing. Oh that they would all come to know the truth. Not so that they would become famous testimonies... but so they wont burn in hell.

Krispy

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Mike Balog