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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : 'Faith' in what - or who?

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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
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 Re:

English-Strong's Index: faith


G1680 elpis (1)
from a primary elpo (to anticipate, usually with pleasure); expectation (abstractly or concretely) or confidence:--faith, hope.
OF FAITH (1)
Heb 10:23

G3640 oligopistos (5)
from 3641 and 4102; incredulous, i.e. lacking confidence (in Christ):--of little faith.
O THOU OF LITTLE FAITH (1)
Mt 14:31
O YE OF LITTLE FAITH (4)
Mt 6:30; 8:26; 16:8; Lu 12:28

G4102 pistis (239)
from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
AFTER THAT FAITH (1)
Ga 3:25
BY FAITH (21)
Ac 15:9; 26:18; Ro 3:28; 5:2; 11:20; 2Co 1:24; Heb 11:4,5,7,8,9,17,20,21,22,23,24,27 ...
FAITH (141)
Mt 8:10; 9:2,22,29; 15:28; 17:20; 21:21; 23:23; Mr 2:5; 4:40; 5:34; 10:52; 11:22; Lu 5:20; 7:9,50; 8:25,48; 17:5,6 ...
FOR THE FAITH (2)
Php 1:27; Jude 1:3
IN FAITH (3)
Ro 4:19,20; Tit 2:2
IN THE FAITH (5)
Ac 14:22; 16:5; Ro 14:1; Col 1:23; 1Pe 5:9
OF FAITH (1)
Heb 12:2
OF FAITH (24)
Ac 6:5,8; 11:24; 14:27; Ro 3:27; 4:13; 10:8; 12:3,6 ...
OF THAT FAITH (1)
Ro 4:12
OF THE FAITH (3)
Ro 4:11; Eph 4:13; 1Ti 3:9
THE FAITH (31)
Ac 3:16; 13:8; 24:24; Ro 3:3; 4:16; 1Co 16:13; 2Co 13:5; Ga 1:23; 2:16,20; 3:23; Eph 3:12; Php 3:9; Col 2:7,12; 1Ti 1:2 ...
THROUGH FAITH (3)
Heb 11:3,11,28
TO THE FAITH (2)
Ac 6:7; Ro 1:5
WITH FAITH (1)
Heb 4:2

Do you realize that there is only two references to Faith in the Old Testament.

Deuteronomy 32:15-21 But Jeshurun (Israel)waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no ((((faith.)))) They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

And; Habakkuk 2:1-4 I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved. And the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by His (((((faith.)))))

Is not upright in him - The construction is that of a condition expressed absolutely. Lo, swollen is it, not upright is his soul in him. We should say, "His soul, if it be swollen, puffed up, is not upright in him." (Christ)

The source of all sin was and is pride and Christ had none. It is especially the sin of all oppressors, of the Chaldee, of antichrists, and shall be of the antichrist. It is the parent of all heresy, and of all corruption and rejection of the gospel. It stands therefore as the type of all opposed to it. Of it he says, it is in its very inmost core ("in him") lacking in uprightness. It can have no good in it, because it denies God, and God denies it His grace. And having nothing upright in it, being corrupt in its very inmost being, it cannot stand or abide. God gives it no power to stand. There is no pride in Christ, that is why He is the only one who can be the Gospel and Receive and Give the Gospel and those that hear and believe by "His Faith."

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Galatians 3:25-27 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

God Himself says the faith of the old testament is not of Him and must be of Him to become the Children of God and to be baptized into Christ and to put Him On.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/12/8 18:36Profile
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Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by His (((((faith.)))))


Ummm, the "faith' that this verse is talking about in context is your own faith that you, the just shall live by, not His (((((faith.))))).

[b]Philippians 3:9[/b] [color=990000]And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the belief of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by beliveing:[/color]

[b]Galatians 3:25-27[/b]
[color=990000]But after that belief is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by belief in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.[/color]

Quote:
God Himself says the faith of the old testament is not of Him and must be of Him to become the Children of God and to be baptized into Christ and to put Him On.


Amen, but you still have not shown me that faith(beliefe) is not from our own volition.

 2006/12/8 22:53Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

And I never will, it takes the Holy Spirit and the Faith of Jesus Christ to confirm the truth.

In the Faith and the belief of Christ: Phillip

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith


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Phillip

 2006/12/8 23:35Profile
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Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
And I never will, it takes the Holy Spirit and the Faith of Jesus Christ to confirm the truth.

Because it doesn't make sence and don't work out in reality

I have a beliefe of Jesus, But it still does not make any sence.

Nobody in my church nor other christians accept for you & a few others see the way you explian it.

Quote:
it takes the Holy Spirit


The Holy Spirit uses common sence to confirm the truth.
He will not lead you into error.

What is truth but reality?

Do you know that you accualy said, "In the belief and the belief of Christ".

Please answer these that would said:
How is belief created in you, and gifted to you?

How is your faith created by God?

Please define and make a distinction of "human faith" and "His faith"

 2006/12/9 9:28Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

The Holy Spirit does not have to use common sense that is based on what man thinks. The Holy Spirit uses truth. I fought with faith for 25 years and did all I could do to make God pleased with me. I had a dream 30 years ago and when the dream was revealed to my understanding 25 years later, what I could see see was complete in Christ and not what I did or thought.

The dream was a tunnel with a light at the end and knowing the light was God I started running toward the light. The faster I ran the dimmer the light became. Then 25 years later When I read Gal 2:20, the dream was revealed in its truth. When I gave up running and sat down and just looked at the Light, it started to get brighter. The More I Read that it was the Faith of Jesus Christ I live my life by. the more I was able to receive the strength of the Light and the warmer the light got. The more I believed what the Holy Spirit was revealing to me about the Light the more I could see that it was not what I could do, or believe, I was already saved by believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. There was nothing I could do beyond that belief and that was not of my own doing even in believing.

Faith began to become my life and the more I believed the more Faith I received, and none of this was in any way had anything to do with what I was doing. It became brighter and brighter and is still growing in warmth and brightness, that is the Faith of Jesus Christ in whom I now live my life. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

This is now my life and it is becoming more and more vibrant to who I am, not to what I do, for it is no longer I who do it but Christ who is in me, and the less I become the more He becomes and the closer I become to God the Father, I believe and know I am a son of God by His Grace through Faith that has come by the power of the Holy Spirit that has been given in me forever and by the Spirit of Christ that has been birthed in me, with the Seed of Christ as my Parental Seed from The Father, I am truly becoming a son of God and will always grow in the Faith and Knowledge of God the Father through the Son forever.

In the Faith of Christ by the Seed of the Father through the Power of the Holy Spirit in me: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/12/11 4:00Profile
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 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
the more I believed the more Faith I received


What is faith other than you believing?
Please answer this.


I read your satatment as, "the more I believed the more belief I received"
or
"the more faith I have the more Faith I received"
or
"the more I believed the more belief I received"

Quote:
Faith began to become my life


This does not make sence eather.

Belief began to become my life?

Please define faith that you are talking about since it is not logical nor "use common sense" as you put it.

 2006/12/11 22:02Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

As I have said the Faith of Jesus Christ gives birth and infuses The Old man faith I had, which would believe the sun will come up tomorrow, with His Faith that builds Line upon Line and Precept upon Precept into the Life of Christ that is birthed in me. Again and Again:
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

If I was crucified with Christ, I died to sin as He did and took away the sin of the world. If I died and yet I still live, what am I living to?
If the born again are baptized into Christ, and the Holy Spirit, and resurrected with Him, what are we resurrected to? We are baptized into His suffering, we are baptized into His death.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

If all that we are is Christ, this must include The Faith of Jesus Christ birthed in us and that is how we are to live our lives, by His Life in us.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

One Faith, that is the Faith of Jesus Christ by whom we life our new lives.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Christ has Faith, God has Faith and the Holy Spirit is the One that operated in that Faith to renew our Minds to the Mind of Christ, always being renewed from now and throughout eternity.

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Jam 2:1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, [the Lord] of glory, with respect of persons.
In other words, don't judge another person and say that it is by the Faith of the Lord of Glory. He can judge and if He wishes He can deal with anyone as He chooses. We unless we have complete confidence in Christ and that His Faith is working in us can we get the log out of our own eye and help a brother get the comparative tiny sliver our of his eye. Seek the Lord and His Faith, which is the Kingdom of God and all things of God will be added unto us.

I can say nothing else regarding this that will give you any assurance that the Faith of Christ is the Faith we live by. Seek His Face and He will reveal this truth unto you.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/12/12 21:23Profile
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 Re:

You build an argument on a preposition that isn't even in the greek.

You don't head to the sound wisdom of reality.

You do not know a man can think on his own enough to choose what is true.

You think that God needs faith.

You twist Scripture to fit your theology instead of conforming your theology to the Scriptures.

Quote:
I can say nothing else regarding this that will give you any assurance that the Faith of Christ is the Faith we live by. Seek His Face and He will reveal this truth unto you.



I have assurance that the believing of Christ is the belief we live by.

Why don't you Seek His Face for some common sence that is based on reality and He will reveal real truth unto you.

I am for sure that you love Jesus with all your heart, However, to think with your emotions and your heart instead of with your mind is not a good way to live by.

Emotion is a good servant, but a lousy master.

 2006/12/12 21:48Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:


Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith the Son God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Take out of and the truth does not change but if you put ev; en, in, it most certainly does. 1722. en
Search for G1722 in KJVSL
en en en

a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between 1519 and 1537); "in," at, (up-)on, by, etc.:--about, after, against, + almost, X altogether, among, X as, at, before, between, (here-)by (+ all means), for (... sake of), + give self wholly to, (here-)in(-to, -wardly), X mightily, (because) of, (up-)on, (open-)ly, X outwardly, one, X quickly, X shortly, (speedi-)ly, X that, X there(-in, -on), through(-out), (un-)to(-ward), under, when, where(-with), while, with(-in). Often used in compounds, with substantially the same import; rarely with verbs of motion, and then not to indicate direction, except (elliptically) by a separate (and different) preposition.

The new translations put this "in" which does change the faith Son God, to imply that it is our faith in the Son of God. Yes a preposition does make a great difference. Leave "in" out and it is still the Faith "OF" The Son of God.



Christ has Faith, God has Faith and the Holy Spirit is the One that operated in that Faith to renew our Minds to the Mind of Christ, always being renewed from now and throughout eternity.

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith "in" God without effect? This one even makes it more pressure on the preposition "OF". This on would not make any sense if it were not "OF"

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

You can take out the of hear and put in, in its place but when you get to unto it brings the faith Christ at the point of entry from Him.
"unto"
1519. eis
Search for G1519 in KJVSL
eiV eis ice

a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.)

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

This one: Take out the of, it becomes Faith Him, but Him is autos: 846. autos
Search for G846 in KJVSL
autoV autos ow-tos'

from the particle au (perhaps akin to the base of 109 through the idea of a baffling wind) (backward); the reflexive pronoun self, used (alone or in the comparative 1438) of the third person , and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons: Him.

Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

This one shows the faith of Christ as the righteousness which is of: ek; God by Faith, that is Faith Christ.

I am not thinking with my emotions, I just don't believe I can change your mindset. This is just truth not emotions. Yes I believe in the Faith of the Son of God that has been birthed in me. I also believe that you are a brother in Christ and we will know the truth of this Faith together on that Day.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/12/12 23:08Profile









 Re: 'Faith' in what - or whom

by Logic on 2006/12/8 22:10:00

Quote:
I believe in George Bush, I never met but I believe he is real.

I put my trust in him to do what he does.
Who gave me this faith? George Bush didn't, I chose to acknowlege the fact based on the evidences and witneses.


[b]I believe in Jesus, [u]I never met[/u] but I believe He is real[/b]. I put my trust in him to do what He does.

Who gave me this faith? God didn't, I chose to acknowlege the fact based on the evidences and witneses.

by Logic on 2006/12/13 2:48:03
Quote:
Emotion is a good servant, but a lousy master.

Hi Logic,

I'm sorry again to cut to the chase here, but I feel sure you have, in the above quotes, given a true assessment of your position, in which your thoughts on faith are entrenched.

John said
We love Him because He first loved us.

There is no getting away from the fact that He died because He [i][b]loved[/i][/b] us. This is one reason it is called His [i][b]passion[/i][/b].

In another thread, I led with the question 'Love is [i][b]not[/i][/b] objective? And I think there is something to ponder on the subjectivity with which Jesus chose to love us.

If you have not met Him, there is a treasure ahead when you do.

 2006/12/14 6:19





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