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philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Indeed. The problem isn't simply Haggard's. Rather, it's our tendency in the body of Christ to make Super Star's out of people. And when they fall, it's as if a meteor has fallen from the heavens. God help us all.



I am not aware of the man or his reputation but this post reminded me of a saying of the old puritans..

"when the sun (Son) rises you won't see the stars'


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/11/5 15:47Profile









 Re: Ted Haggard...

Haggard Confesses: ‘I Am a Deciever and a Liar’

From a statement read in right-wing evangelical leader Ted Haggard’s church this morning: “The fact is I am guilty of sexual immorality, and I take responsibility for the entire problem. I am a deceiver and a liar. There’s a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring with it all of my adult life.” Haggard previously denied having sex with a male prostitute.

from: http://thinkprogress.org/2006/11/05/haggard-confesses-i-am-a-deciever-and-a-liar/

a more extended documentation on it: http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4607865

Jordan

 2006/11/5 16:39
sermonindex
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Online!
 Re:

Quote:
Haggard tells himself over and over that influence is on loan. In an instant, it could be gone. The men he moves with now - Tony Blair, Ariel Sharon - know it too, he believes. Being a preacher, Haggard believes his influence is on loan from God.


from: http://www.tedhaggard.com/denverPost.jsp


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/11/5 16:56Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

2Sam. 12:7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more! 9 Why have you despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in His sight? You have killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword; you have taken his wife to be your wife, and have killed him with the sword of the people of Ammon. 10 Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ 11 Thus says the LORD: “Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’ ”

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2006/11/6 0:32Profile
markm
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Joined: 2004/11/4
Posts: 46


 Re:

Quote:
Galations 6:1 Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted.

hmm...

 2006/11/6 5:18Profile
winthrup7
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Joined: 2006/11/6
Posts: 12


 Re: Ted Haggard...

Beloved, let us be mindful of the times in which we live and how Judgement does begin at the house of God. My prayer for this man is that he would truly come to the light of Jesus Christ, and let Christ expose his heart. That he would come to real repentance and restoration. The blood of Christ is more than enough. And that is my heart for this man sincerely. But I think you will find this not coincidental.

Ted Haggard's last Sunday Morning Sermon (Oct 29), was on 1 Samuel 16. It was about God choosing a successor for Saul, King David. And it included the fact that our disobedience can cause God to reject the calling on our lives (in context of Saul's disobedience). As well as Haggard reminding us that God does not look on the outward appearance as men do, but on the heart. (newlifechurch.org; See Podcasts, Sunday Morning)

His opening prayer included this:

"Father, we pray that lies would be exposed; we pray that deception would be exposed..."

His statement the week following (after his resignation) where he admitted sexual immorality included this: "I am a deceiver and a liar".

I don't say this in irrerevance, or gleefully, but in fear: God answered this man's prayer. And it needed to begin in his own life a long time ago. Let this be a reminder that if our preaching does not reflect a heart after God, it will be exposed as such. But if our heart is after God, and jealous for His glory, then indeed we shall be hid in Christ. And men, when they look at us will not stop at us, but will see and be drawn to the Lord Jesus Christ. Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord God Almighty.

David Wilkeson, in 1986 preached a sermon (available here), called Strange Incense. In it, he suggests that if our prayers are not with clean hands and a pure heart, they become Strange Incense in the site of a Holy God, and USHERS IN JUDGEMENT. This was indeed a sobering reminder to me recently that we enter not in like Nadab and Abihu; or Uzziah. But in Humility, by the blood of Jesus Christ alone are we able to enter in the presence of the Father. If the Lord wills, you might want to give it a listen.

God is in the process of purging His church, and exposing wolves among sheep. And I am convinced there will be more cases like this.

Larry Stockstill, Pastor of Bethany World Prayer Center, Haggard's former Senior Pastor, and one of the board members who dismissed him, said "God chose to reveal Pastor Ted's sin," he said. "In this case, God chose at this particular moment to allow this sin to be exposed. Now we can be mad at God. We can say that's not fair. The timing is terrible. Or we can say Blessed be the name of the Lord. One of the things I've learned about God is that he is wiser than me. ... What's going to happen in the nation? You know what? I don't think that's your concern or mine. God is a holy God and he chose this incredibly important timing for this sin to be revealed, and I actually think it's a good thing. I believe America needs a shaking, spiritually." (christianitytoday.com, nov 6th, 2006: News).

I am reminded of what Richard Owen Roberts said once while he visited a church I attended. He said, "If you will not maintain His Holiness, He will maintain it...AT YOUR EXPENSE." (video on sermoninedex.net called "Breaking Faith With God", last 7 minutes).

May be broken for a "sick church in dying world" (Ravenhill); For the Ichabod in this nation, even churches who are blessed, but are found playing in the darkness of their own idolatry. God have mercy on us. Let us humble ourselves before the Lord.

"Wherefore he that thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall" (1 Cor 10:12).

--winthrup7

 2006/11/6 7:06Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I don't say this in irrerevance, or gleefully, but in fear: God answered this man's prayer. [u]And it needed to begin in his own life a long time ago.[/u] Let this be a reminder that if our preaching does not reflect a heart after God, it will be exposed as such.



The issue we have to come to terms with also is how folk who are in reptuation end up getting into a place where the enemy can work on them and they won't reach out for help from the saints. This is one of the things that happened to Jimmy Swaggart. The PRESSURE to act like everything is OK in order to maintain an 'image' in enormous. Folk expect you to be untouchable and the tendency is to allow them to believe it. When temptations come, along with the tremendous stresses that already come with being in a ministry like that, the feeling often develops that the person has no one to talk to. Not that everyone in ministry is struggling with drugs, homosexuality, or adultery because they are not, but it is a process that leads to these sins. Folk do not FALL over night.

Folk who have to come off 'perfect' are particularly vulnerable. Who is pastoring the pastors? Who is pastoring the pastor that pastors the pastors (senior leaders such as Ted)? Who can these men go to for pastoring and counsel? This is one of the questions Swagggart asked, "Who could I go to and talk to?" This is an important question. When you preach against sin and are in reputation for being tough on sin- you are still vulnerable yourself. No one is out of radar range of the enemy. But then how do you admit of temptation or weakness? Your going along and all the sudden temptation comes. Then what? many times you can resist the Devil and He will flee; but this is hinging on our submission to God. What if the devotional life has been neglected and the person is not up to date in their relationship to God? What if pride has come in and now God is resisting them? Many 'What if's', but the bottom line is- how do these people REACH OUT for help before it's too late and scandal is at the door?

Imagine for a moment how you would react if some of the biggest names in repentance preaching over the last 100 years came to YOU and said, "I need prayer." Have WE so exalted these men that we somehow think they are spiritual comic book figures or something? Would our faith be able to handle the comic book being SLAPPED out of our hands by reality? These people are human beings and they need to be able to admit of weakness. There is no temptation taken you but what is [i]common[/i] to man. I preached a message once called "PUT DOWN THE COMIC BOOK". It may never make the long list of great messages, but the truth remains. No one is holier than thou. Everyone needs the Body. Everyone needs prayer. Everyone needs pastored, etc. And when this does not exist, why should we wonder when some who are in reputation fall?


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/11/6 8:14Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Much food for thought in these past posts,

Quote:
"Who could I go to and talk to?"



A few years ago a pastor, who was also a good friend I loved, was caught in an affair. One of the most frustrating aspects of the whole fiasco was how shut out I felt...After learning how certain temptations could have been easily avoided I felt angry that we would be so close and yet so dishonest with one another. I would have been honored to have been asked to talk and walk with this man through his problems. I never imagined him as a sinless angel floating above the rest of us...I don't imagine any of the preachers on this website are either.

Alas, our church systems don't seem to support ministry upstream.

I'm not sure if we've exalted them, or they have done so themsleves...or both. It seems that modern ministries are really public relations more then relationships. Many pastors don't want prayer in the direct sense...they may lay hands on you but you may not penetrate their labored image. In fact this is the primary reason I struggle with even going to church...knowing people is next to impossible in those sanctified walls. People put their game face on when they enter the building.

I wonder if situations like Haggards are the reason. We just learned alittle more about who Ted is and the wheels fall off the bus....and in light of the public shame of Haggard, I wonder if other pastors, not to mention laypeople are taking notes and concluding...hide your sin at all cost.

I suppose in my own ideal version of reality, these men wouldn't be so isolated from the teeming masses. But then again what do I know?

Certainly we can all agree that even a pastor needs a pastor. I truly pray that Mr. Haggard is met richly by God through all this...God could've let him go his own way but in unfailing mercy pursued him. Blessed be the name of the Lord.

Perhaps Ted Haggard really does represent us American evangelicals afterall.


MC




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Mike Compton

 2006/11/6 8:48Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Compton's:

Quote:
We just learned alittle more about who Ted is and the wheels fall off the bus....and in light of the public shame of Haggard, I wonder if other pastors, not to mention laypeople are taking notes and concluding...hide your sin at all cost.



This was the lesson learned of PTL and Jimmy Swaggert also. The reaction of the Church only reinforced their position of silence. It is the combination of things that you mention that I believe makes up this deadly elixer. It is sad when a person won't tell their closest friends they are slipping. I guess the best advice here is... don't do it. Ask for prayer- help, etc. Perhaps my most trouble is when I hear folk trying to come off as if they have no temptations or struggles. Just being honest. I heard the story of a preacher once who preached sin and hell HOT. He ripped his congregation from Dan to Beersheba. Finally when the husband of one of the women he was in adultry found out he forced him to church with a gun to his head and made him repent at the altar. "You preached like that to us and this is how you live?" The ANGER that came out was incredible. And this is the danger of an unbalanced and unrealistic attitude.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2006/11/6 9:04Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
I would have been honored to have been asked to talk and walk with this man through his problems. I never imagined him as a sinless angel floating above the rest of us...I don't imagine any of the preachers on this website are either.



I am part of a small men's accountibility group at my church and have found that it is indeed an honor to walk through these things with a brother and to be open about my own temptations and failings also. I highly recommend finding an accountibility partner(s), for...
Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour. For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up. Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone? And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.(Ecc 4:9-12)
As in all things though, there needs to be balance; an accountibility group can turn into a substitute for seeking God, a crutch that is leaned on too heavily. Ultimately speaking, the accountibilty partner won't always be around when the crisis comes, but Christ is always there.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2006/11/6 9:39Profile





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