I want to note some verses first:

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D.Miller

I'm not going to answer for bro. Ben but I will say this, God is not disrespectful of each of us when it comes to His longsuffering in His dealings with us in our sins.

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D.Miller

Hi ChrisJD,

Thanks for the touching post. (I feel alittle awkward after having posted my more lighthearted Foxworthy bit...)

I've said this before in another context but I think it applies here...that I am learning to cry my tears (actually or figuratively) bit by bit along the way as opposed to running from them and then all at once falling apart. The thing is that I intend to feel connected to the brethren and not shut off from them.

And if I am going to be upset about Haggards sin then I want to take time and deal with that. In the end I up confessing more then accusing...his failure invariably leads us back to ouselves. It's like that with all "leaders" as well...I remember watching this 'expose' on Benny Hinn's filthy lucre. I was mad for a moment, but soon all I could do is wonder if the disgust I felt for Hinn was a taste of how I offended God with my own money.

Yet I never want to luxuriate in my sadness...making a virtue of it. The point of sadness and suffering is that it should be undesirable...we should take no sense of identity or pride from it. Only then is it true sadness and suffering.

I learned that from my blessed bride of 15 years...the joy of the Lord is my strength. It took a profound man, Nehemiah, who knew repentance and brokenheartedness to say those words. Suffering provokes compassion; this is how God wired me...I think that's why he also gave me a sense of humor...to lift people up. (Sorry if I've failed below LOL)

This is the irony...we find joy in losing hope in this world. It is perhaps a confession that I, so idolatrous at the core, must lose hope over and over again, but I am glad that the Lord graces us with soft enough holds on this Earth to let things go when we must....In this way I believe that joy, as well as sorrow, is going to be a real mark of the spirit in the last days...joy not in the circumstantial world that is rotting beneath our feet but in our hope, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Tearfully I open my heart to him , unclasping a misers purse...His face is flinty but His heart is true. Every wound is forgotten in his presence, every grudge for my enemies forgiven. We read about God in books and grow reputable before others in our knowledge...but before Him, when we see just a peek of who He is...a ray of light through a crack in our own schemes...we despise the things we held as important...our hate for others, our love of self.

We despise it all and empty our hearts of it. Every angry judgement, every thought of gratification, every worthless coin with another anti-christ ceasar on it...we file bankruptcy. And this is how we make room for joy once again.

I don't know why I shared all that but blessed be the Lord brother.

MC

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Mike Compton

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Leonardo Santana

The saying, "morality dictates doctrine" is more true to me now than
ever.

With the fall of Ted Haggard, the"once saved always saved" preacher of
a seeker- friendly religious building/ church club, whose claim to
fame on Tom Brokaw's new broadcast a while back was to not preach against
sin so that sinners felt comfortable visiting, now confesses that he
had been defeated for years with sodomy. The struggle isn't the problem-
we all have things we are battling. The only way we can overcome the
sins that we are tempted by is through His Grace. However, God
"resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble". It is important for us to
see the root problem in this ugly situation. Having a Pope is wrong,
whether they be Catholic, Protestant or non- denominational/ evangelical.
Positional leadership, instead of organic leadership, separates
brethren, making some peons and lifting others up in pride, thus the ones
lifted up have no grace to overcome sin, since they are being "resisted"
by God. I hate the bad testimony that this situation brings
upon Christ's name, but I hate even more the Nicolaitanism /
Babylonian systems of lifting men up in a pope position even more since it is
one of the root problems of this travesty.

We should pray for the thousands caught up in this mess to get their
eyes off of these Christian movie stars and on to Jesus. Pray that their
faith will not fail.
Let us always remember to stay brothers amongst brothers.

Jason

Brother I was sensing something similar to what you wrote yesterday.
Within the Catholic Institution there are many who deplore the molestation of the children, yet things do not change as they have no authority to question those in charge. Now we have adapted this into the Protestant Church as well. Where there may be things wrong or contrary to God's Word, but one cannot comment because the leadership is somehow above reproach, and infallible. It is a very "popish" way of doing things. Then add to this that many people are kept in line with the misuse of the Scripture "touch not mine anointed", and told that to question the leaders is to question God Himself! Perhaps in many Churches there are genuine men of God who genuinely look after and love their peoples' souls but I have yet to come across this. I have found a very domineering, abusive, controlling, if you're not with us, you're against us mentality.
It is time that we re-evaluate much of what we do in the name of Christ. Starting in our own hearts and then working outwardly.
May our cries flood the throne room of our God, that He would send a wave to revive His sleeping children and may it start with us.

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patrick heaviside

that right, lamb
it seems, that if you would try to correct or even if you dont agree with same idea as the Pastor, your commiting a spirtual murder on the Pastor's authority, so you stay silent. or some men ,becuase of selfish motives will agree with everthing the pastor says so he will look good in the pastor's eyes and mabey move on up in the church ladder. believe me i know becuase i,m guilty of both... God is really dealing with me in these matters..how i should glory God, rather then man..

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andy

Brother Andres may I encourage you by saying that I was involved in this too at one point, but God is merciful, and He will lead you out.
It is concerning to me though how many men sacrifice Truth for a paycheck, when God has said that He will take care of those that honour Him.
Be strong brother because the institutionalized religious system puts its claws into a person very seductively and before you know it, you are so involved that it seems almost impossible to escape, but with God nothing is impossible. Praise Him, and enjoy the journey!

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patrick heaviside

I'd like to share something deep within my heart.

Surfing online a few months ago, I came across a 'turn or burn' website exposing numerous people. Some didn't really have strong evidence but they had some on Ted Haggard. For some reason, it caused me to read on. The 'exposing' was in paid homosexual affairs, in 1997.

Before actually surfing, I was worshipping God. Then 'surfed'. I couldn't get away from reading about Mr.Haggard.

So, I went before the Lord, "Lord, I don't know why I'm praying this, but I am. I ask that IF this is true. That You would expose this abominable sin. Father, I ask that you first give him a chance to repent. Make it clear. Let him FIRST repent, and if he ignores it, then proceed. Father, do this in such a way, that it brings Glory and Honor to Your name."

Now, you might say 'Your just saying that lovegrace' but I'm not.

To see that within 2 months of praying that, God answered, that BIG. Is quite a shocker to me.

I'm not 'super spiritual' or nothing. Just a normal guy who loves Jesus, with all his heart.

Brethren, we serve a loving holy God. Let's not play games with His statements. Let's not play in sin, but instead, strive to be holy and loving for God is both.

thats funny!! the dispensationalist thing...did you cook that up?...if you did, man your good!!

neil