Thank you so much for your thoughts on this subject ChrisJD. Now the nail has truly been hit on the head and may the ring of it resound to the church.
...as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God
God is calling His church to humble themselves and pray even those on wild false teacher hunts, and seek His face
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
and turn, turn, turn
the plank is larger than the mote but so often is missed. There is a "religious spirit" that looks nothing like Christ though all the right words are said.
Help us Father.
| 2006/10/28 16:11||Profile|
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| being uneavenly yoked with unbelievers|
Not saying JM isnt saved... but having successful prison ministries, and top selling books (filled with rank WOF heresies) doesnt mean anything.
but bro you did pull out this scripture
So it makes it ok? 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
have you quoted it out of context because here you're not saying JM isn't saved? the above isn't saying that we ought not have any dealings with the world. we are in the world yet not of it so on some level or other we have to deal with unsaved folk sometime. but this is our sister in Christ though. we are called to separated ourselves from the world spiritually, physically we can't do that till we die. We could be like the Amish, living as they do with little interaction with the world but how does that help the world? how is Christ shone forth without some sort of interaction? what Paul is saying is that we can't hope to attain Holiness by soliciting the help of the unsaved.
this whole yoking thing brought back some childhood memories which God taught me through. i don't know how much you know about farming bro Krispy but here goes. at some point in my life i got to learn how to till the land with cattle. cattle are very docile but strong creatures. when one tills the land with a team of oxen they have to be yoked together and both have to be willing to do the job or else nothing is going to happen.
one gets up early, gathers the gear, the yoke (joki in my language) which has slots cut in it in pairs wide enough apart to make room for the coz's neck. in these slots go (not sure what the english word for this is) chikeyi (zvikeyi is the plural) which are wooden bars which keep the yoke from sliding off. those zvikeyi are connected by a rope which goes under the cow's neck so that should the coz rear it's head, the yoke won't get thrown off and come back down on the cow's neck. cattle are worth more than gold...
anyhow i remember one occasion when one of the 2 bullocks we used to till the land just wasn't in the mood to work...that made for a long morning. we couldn't get that thing to work for anything, no amount of whipping, coaxing, nothing did it. eventually we got it under the yoke, where we had the other willing bullock aleady and it was gravy after that. going up and down the field making the furrows was no sweat then.
so how does this apply? if we had yoked that one cow which was not in the mood to work with the other one, we would have had a long day rather than just a long morning. if we take the ploughing to be the work of God, the willing cow to be the believer and the unwilling cow the unbeliever, we can see something more about what Paul was trying to say. the work of God can't be done when an unbeliever is on the saeme yoke we are on. well some work could be done but it will not be much and it won't be easy. as believers, there is no amount of coaxing, accusing, whipping or whatever which will compel the nonbeliever to get under the Yoke we're under to do the work of God.however if we simply are as we should be, that is testimony enough without words. the unwilling cow eventually got under the yoke long after the beating and so on, i guess it finally felt like working! anyhow once it did get under the yoke, there was no need to do anything more to get it to work, it just did.
so it is with us, if we conduct ourselves as we should, the life of Christ will speak for Him and for us who called by His name and testify against the wickedness which is around us.however if we look around we see that God's work is greatly hindered because we have already yoked ourselves with unbelievers. we have fellowshipped with darkness. we have sought to do the work of God by our own strength and means hence nothing much gets done...it's not the Church which has influenced the world, but the world which has influenced the Church.
now in the case of JM, she is our sister in Christ, not an unbeliever. we ought not give up on her or cast her aside. the word says we shouldn't judge or we will be judged ourselves with the same harshness which we judge. if we write our sister off and do/say nothing to right the things we see are clearly wrong, it seems to me if we were in the same position, people looking at us would do the same.
how many times have we taught the wrong thing and done the wrong thing yet God puts up with us, day in and day out and corrects us over and over, day in and day out. surely this determination on God's part to complete the work He began should cause us be that much more determined to see this work done not just in us but others, no matter what it takes.
i think about all that God has had to put up with (and stil is) with me, but He hasn't written me off...perhaps we should be a bit slower to write people off? let us consider God's mercy on us and show that to others.
| 2006/10/28 19:01||Profile|
| Re: being uneavenly yoked with unbelievers|
I ordered the book for our prayer resource library and while I was at it I ordered books on other saints who have shown us the better way of prayer.
This is music to my ears!
I have shelves full of great books written by humle saints of God. I collect them from yard sales and church tables (library rejects!) Christians have been discarding them because they look old and unattractive. They are replaced with modern fiction, and such.
You can see why I am delighted to see someone like you bringing them back into circulation.
| 2006/10/28 19:14||Profile|
| Ironman---wise words|
now in the case of JM, she is our sister in Christ, not an unbeliever. we ought not give up on her or cast her aside.
that says it all, now pray God this thread ends.
| 2006/10/29 0:59|
The thread is semi controversial because some on it want to follow their own understanding of "walking" in the spirit vs the scriptural truth of what this means.
George Mueller declared that anything he recieved from the Spirit HAD to be in agreement with the scripture otherwise it opened him to all sorts of deception.
The warning about born again, spirit filled, christians being under the letter, as opposed to seeing the letter through the Spirit is valid.
We should be careful.
However lets test this.
Many in the church "know" in their spirit that certain things are wrong. Let's use women being pastors/ having authority over men.
Now many others in the church say no it's o.k.
How can anyone know the truth about this subject?
What saith the scriptures?
Specifically the new covenent (new test)scriptues?
What sayeth the prince of grace and spirit preaching,Paul the apostle of grace?
Read plainly what he says
1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
1 Corinthians 14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
That they may "teach the young women" to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
There are several other scriptures that Paul directs concerning the proper, orderly, Godly conduct of the women of the faith.
Paul did not speak these things against the spirit but rather in unity and from the spirit. These commands /traditions are a blessing for women not a curse.
Let not many of you be masters(teachers)for you will incur a stricter judgement. Dear sisters do you want that stricter judgement against you?
Another danger when we cry spirit spirit without the confirmation of the scripture is it will almost always end up in deception and compromise. Every man or women will do that which is right in their own eyes. We see this in the American churches on a variety of isues.
The command of Paul is that we all have the same mind and same judgment on these things(1cor chp1).
I know this is possible otherwise Paul would not have commanded it.
God bless, John
| 2006/10/29 1:07|
I would like to add a bit more.
Lest some think that I have a "personal" biased against women please let me try and persuade you otherwise.
I consider my wife to be much more spiritual than me in many areas. I also know that without her in my life I would not be as blessed of a man. She often has greater insight into certain things than I do. As a team husband and wife that is great.
MANY great things have been accomplished through the holy prayers of righteous, christian women.
It is often said that behind every great man is
a greater women. Greater in her support care and advice to her husband.
Christian women wield great power on the earth. Greater than many realize.
Therefore the christian women should take her place in the great line of authority, God the Father, Jesus the son, man and then women.1 cor 11
Behind a great and holy church are great and holy christian women!
I encourage you to shine in humility and holiness and shamefacedness. Approach the throne of grace with your humble and holy prayers and you will move many mountains on the earth, just as you have in times past. But maintain and teach other women the place of true power, grace and peace!
God bless, John
| 2006/10/29 2:34|
I would like to add a bit more...........
..........It is often said that behind every great man is a greater women. Greater in her support care and advice to her husband...........
God bless, John
.........Mostly always telling him he is wrong. ;-)
| 2006/10/29 5:11|
I thought Joyce Meyers was a lost cause too, but I sent her a copy of Ray Comfort's tapes anyway a few years ago. She sent a kind of cold thank you letter back, and then flipping channels, I caught a show I felt she kind of mocked Way of the Master evangelism style later on one of her shows.
since she has him on her show, I see I was wrong, so you never know
It's funny you mention this, I have often handed copies of Hells Best Kept Secret to "professional type" pastors, who have been deeply convisted by it, only to adopt the "using the Law" technique, but not realise the importance of "showing sin to be exceedingly sinful", and therby cause the appearance of mockery. I remember sitting down to watch Way of the Master with my father a while ago, and he said to me, "Is this is that stuff the Ps So-and-So made a mess of preaching?" It's almost like they can't lower themselves to the level of not being the one to dish up manna, and because of this, serve up rotting quail, in preference.
Perhaps Meyer fits into this category. Perhaps shes heard something in the message that has pricked her heart (funny how the Word of God has a way of doing that), and once she has "composed herself", has tried to adapt it for her "viewer's benefit" and has since come one step closer to "coming to the end of herself" by admitting the need of another to present the message.
The week that Ray was recording the show, I met with a staff memeber from the GNN, who was visiting Australia for a Evangelism Boot Camp, and he mentioned that Meyer had purchased a massive amount of Ray and Kirk's Way of the Master book, to be used as "gifts" for donors to her ministry. He mentioned that he anticipated that Ray would cop alot of flack for being on the show. I for one commend Ray for going on, and taking the opportunity of presenting the gospel to countless counterfeigt converts who mindlessly abosorb the "humanist rot" that she tends to dish up. It reminds me of a story Ray told of how he talked Krik Cameron into starring in Left Behind 2, citing the countless people who could be influenced by his involvement in the movie. As a result of Kirk's starring in the movie, Ray and Kirk even had input into the script, rewriting the gospel presentations.
As Jesus and Paul in their day, I rejoice that the Christ is preached, especially to th epeople who need to hear it.
| 2006/10/29 6:23||Profile|
| Re: ChrisJD|
ChrisJD, you bring up a good point. The underground and persecuted church has taught me some very interesting things, and unorthodox things, but I believe God can be unorthodox too. I believe our persecuted brothers and sisters in Christ have wisdom to share.
thanks for sharing,
If anyone is interested in the ministry of Richard Wurmbrand and the persecuted church, a free newsletter is available at www.persecution.com, that book ChrisJD mentioned "Tortured for Christ" is often available for free through this ministry. God bless
| 2006/10/29 8:06||Profile|
CJaKfOrEsT wrote: As Jesus and Paul in their day, I rejoice that the Christ is preached, especially to th epeople who need to hear it.
| 2006/10/29 8:17||Profile|