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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re:

Good post, Krispy!

Does JM actually consider herself to be a pastor? I am familar with the scriptures describing the qualifications for a bishop or deacon. Is this what she says she is? If so, she is definately out of place, like you said.

To me there is a huge difference is a female engaged in evangelism/teaching vs leading a church. Joel tells us in the last days sons and daughters shall dream dreams and prophesy. Apostle Philip had four daughters that prophecied, but we do not read they were leaders of a brotherhood. I would consider that different because of the scriptures noted. If this - given to prophecy - is the ministry JM is doing I would have no problem with that. There were OT women gifted in this manner and they give us a pattern what you can reasonably expect to see in the NT church where all of God's people were to be filled and empowered with the Holy Spirit.

My unease with her goes beyond what anyone else said or what I noted in my other post...I just gave the basic...and that has to do with what the scriptures tell a female to do when praying of prophesing. 1 Corinthians 11 tells us a woman's head is to be covered. I did not see a veil on JM's head. 1 Cor. 11 tells us if you do not do that, this will dishonor her head. The word dishonor means (from Strongs): "infamy, that is, (subjectively) comparative indignity, (objectively) disgrace: - dishonour, reproach, shame, vile." Jesus tells us if we are ashamed of him, he will be ashamed of us. Now based on this scripture where does that put JM? or any other female who chooses to disregard this scripture?

Having said all this, I did not mention the doctrine she promotes. I agree with the other posters here on the WOF movement.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2006/10/27 14:46Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Does JM actually consider herself to be a pastor? I am familar with the scriptures describing the qualifications for a bishop or deacon. Is this what she says she is? If so, she is definately out of place, like you said.



When JM stands before a stadium of people (both men and women) and teaches from the scripture she is putting herself in a place of authority. If she is not an authority on what she is teaching, then how can she teach? When she does this with men in the audience, she is exercising authority over men. She is teaching men scripture, and this is expressly forbidden.

Yes, there was a husband and wife who taught Paul when he was fairly new in the faith... but it was a wife working in conjunction with her husband to minister to an individual. Scripture does not give a clear description of how that episode in Paul's life went down, but we can not assume that this gives women permission to be pastors or teachers over men. That would be quite an assumption for us to make.

JM claims to be a pastor. Back when I was into the WOF movememnt I remember her clearly saying so. That is what she believes she is.

I even applauded her back then. My wife and I watched her all the time.

Thankfully... as my understanding and desire for God's Word grew, so did the discernment He gave me.

Krispy

 2006/10/27 15:08









 Re: Ray Comfort on Joyce Meyer

Quote:
Love ya, Dorcas, but I didnt take anything out of context. Saying I did doesnt make it true.

Wow, this thread has moved apace! (I'm answering on p3, not having read the rest of the thread yet.)

Krispy, I didn't say you [i]did[/i] take something out of context.

But, you do ASSUME that Joyce Meyer is not in subjection to anyone, don't you? Isn't this the only way you can deduce she has [i]usurped authority?[/i]

That was the substance of my post..... that a woman whose ministry is rightly related to those towards whom she should mutually submit, is not [i]out of order[/i].

[b]If[/b] what she teaches is unscriptural, or you have any other complaint against her ministry, that is a different problem; [b]on those factors, many men shouldn't be in ministry either.....[/b]

Ephesians 5
[i]18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,

19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord,

20 giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,[/i]

21 [b]submitting to [u]one another[/u] in the fear of God[/b].


Do you submit to [i]me[/i], Krispy, in the equality which makes submission possible (according to Oswald Chambers)?

 2006/10/27 15:28









 Re: Ray Comfort on Joyce Meyer


OK, now I got to the end of the thread, I am very saddened by the legalistic tone of comments about JM's divorce and remarriage.

This is one subject that none of us has any access to the necessary detail which would enable a true judgment to be made.

Lastly, what happened to

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

?

Ministry is primarily spiritual, or it is dead works.

Earlier in the thread IRONMAN mentioned hearing from God through a variety of people. I testify to the same. It doesn't even matter if such persons are not Christian.... God can and does use whom He will to lead us deeper into truth.

Note: I am not talking about a non-Christian setting out to expound scripture.... I'm just saying that God uses 'people' to communicate His heart and truth to His children who are listening for His voice.

 2006/10/27 15:50
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2669
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Let's not forget that God used a donkey to get the message through to Balaam.

So God can use not just who He wants, but WHAT He wants.

Just one dumb animal to another, in the case of Balaam that is.

Did anyone take that personally?

No?

Phew!

 2006/10/27 15:59Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2669
Nottingham, England

 Re:

P.S

Still reject her teachings!

 2006/10/27 16:01Profile
lovegrace
Member



Joined: 2006/8/12
Posts: 313


 Re:

Krispy wrote :

Quote:
Yes, Jesus hung around with sinners... to the point where people said He was a winebibber and a glutton... which He was neither. But whenever Jesus encountered false teachers or pharisaical people He rebuked them. Harshly.



Brother, I had a problem with a few statements you made about 'fellowshipping to false teachers or pharisutical people'.

Below is two contextual scriptures on where Jesus hung out with a Pharisee, I don't know if it is the same one, but nonetheless it's a refutement to the quoted statement above. Blessings brother.

In Luke 7:36-50 Jesus ate a meal with a Pharisee and didn't rebuke his (the Pharisee's) teaching, just his own words against the woman anointing Jesus' feet.

Then also in Luke 14:1-14, Jesus AGAIN eats a meal with a Pharisee. Here Christ just teaches them things of the Kingdom of God. No formal rebuke to them individually but instead teaching from His throne.

 2006/10/27 16:53Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re:

Enid wrote:

Quote:
Just one dumb animal to another, in the case of Balaam that is.



LOL

In the NT donkeys are called "tares".:-?

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2006/10/27 16:58Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7494
Mississippi

 Re:

Dorcas wrote:

Quote:
I am very saddened by the legalistic tone of comments about JM's divorce and remarriage.



Since when has quoting scripture become legalistic? Seems to me I see you do it all the time!

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2006/10/27 17:00Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Whatsoever things are of good report ...

About Lady Joyce? She has not drawn me, but obviously she draws millions of admirers. After all, she didn’t get her nice car and house from the sky – well, maybe she feels she does.

I feel intensely sorry for all those who know lots about this lady, and nothing about the great sister saints – soldiers of the cross who have contended for the faith in our past - those who learned foreign languages, taught, led, translated the Bible, and knew more miracles than most of us will ever know put together - healings, deliverances, provisions, who led entire villages to Christ. …. and who were humble servant leaders in the places God sent them. There were women who single-handedly led entire villages to Christ without a white man around. God was their Man!!!


I say, let Mrs. J do her thing. Don’t waste time there. If you are wondering about women as leaders, why not get edified by reading such biographies as Catherine Booth, Fanny Crosby – who was such a mighty preacher that people lined up for blocks to hear her. (that part gets left out of the history books) Or what about Mary Slessor, Dr. Hamilton, (forget her first name), and many, many others – who went to the dangerous corners of the world without a man? What about Gladys Alward who’s own church, including the missionary societies rejected - refused to put their umbrella over her.


Men, If you could, I know you’d wash the feet of these dear saints. And you’d be silenced! I sure would be!

When God puts his hand on a servant, man or woman, amazing things happen for the Kingdom. However, when man (or women) walk out from under HIS authority, you end up with a lot of hot wind. And then a debate about gender roles is irrelevant.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/10/27 17:07Profile





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