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 Re:

Fair enough. I would like to ask one question. Did I say anything that was not the truth. Maybe we should read Rom. chapter one and see how Paul lays out the dangers of turning from the truth. Paul did'nt pull any punches. I'm tired of dancing around the truth so we don't offend anyone. Either the bible is the Word of God or it's not. Either we serve the one true God or we don't.

If you don't think this country is founded by christians than read The Mayflower Compact.

If I've said anything that offends anyone than they might need to be offended. I do not apologize for anything I've said or the stand that I have made against this religion. I have not attacked anything but a false pagan god and the roots of this religion.

J-bird

"Let God be true and every man a liar" -Holy Bible

 2006/9/14 17:21
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro J-Bird
i'm kinda leaning toward bro greg's stance as far as the founding of this nation. it seems to me if we were a Christian nation, we would be living in a theocracy. the people on the mayflower were looking to escape religious persecution but when George Washington and them got together to declare independance from England, they had a different set of problems to deal with. They didn't make Christianity the exclusive religion but rather made it ok for anyone to practise their faith without fear of persecution.

i don't think that there is any such thing as a Christian nation anywhere except in that Far Country. Now there are Christians in every nation though. At this stage though the sins of our nation and indeed of the world as a whole have piled up high enough that there is no staying God's hand. His judgment is coming on this nation and indeed the whole world. so it is not "us" who are to take back "our" but rather it is God Himself who shall take back His earth from the enemy (who even though he rules now he is under God's thumb) i'm reminded brethren of when Joshua by God's hand took Jericho:

Joshua 5 (using KJV)

[b]13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? 14 And he said, Nay; but as captain F13 of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? 15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. [/b]

Joshua until then had not reckoned with the fact that they were fighting not for themselves or for their land but for God's land. Now God had promised it to Abraham's descendants but the land was God's. we need to get it into our heads, hearts and spirits that God [b]is not[/b]on [b]our[/b] side but that by Christ's blood we are now on [i][b]His[/b][/i]side. additionally God is working out His own agenda and not our own and we need to get on board with His agenda. Anything we set our minds and hearts to which is not in accordance to His will is futile and will fail ultimately.

it is good for us to love country but unless that love is the love of Christ, then it doesn't glorify God. only by that love can we really do right by God as it pertains to loving Him, ourselves, family and even country.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/9/14 17:48Profile









 Brother J-Bird

you wrote:

Quote:
We DO need to take this country back, it is founded on the christian faith.



Brother, I cannot more strenously disagree with you. The men that founded this country were fleeing from a state sanctioned form of civic christianity, (and I use the lower case "c" on purpose) As my brother Greg stated, a lot of the founding fathers were "deists", and I might add slaveholders, which is a horrendous sin I won't even address in this post.

and I have no idea what you mean when you say we must "take this country back". We have a Constitution that says and implies freedom of religion, and that means if a Buddhist wants to immigrate here, and worship Buddha, or be a Hindu, or a Muslim, they are FREE to do so, this is what makes America great, and I have put my body in a uniform to defend the right of those who wish to partake of this freedom, this great freedom.

Anybody who wishes to rescind this freedom, in my opinion is the antithesis of a patriot, which is precisely why my warning bells sound when I hear the rhetoric about "taking back this country for christ", because that is the genesis of a theocracy, which is something the founding fathers fought against, a civic religion, a national religion.

I know there are many ministries which engage in this type of rhetoric, and I give them a wide wide berth, because when you start down the slippery slope of civic christianity, a national religion, you no longer worship Christ, your deity becomes the power of the state, and the men who head up this new apostate fleshly religion.

America is great because we ALL have freedom, and sometimes freedom gets messy, but it leads to great ideas, soaring ideas, when people are allowed to live and breathe in freedom. A civic religion would suck the life out of this great experiment.

Look at Iran for your template on what happens when a nation slides down the slope of theocracy.

sidebar sir, since when is it illegal to be a muslim in America?

and I don't believe it's loving to group the Koran in the same class as "Mein Kampf". It's incendiary, and it doesn't help.

Please don't take offense at what i wrote, but I believe that this unique experiment called The United States of America, is based in freedom, and the call of the patriot is to defend the freedom of ALL who live here, and frequently the tree of freedom must be nourished with the blood of patriots, and that has nothing to with Christ, and everything to do with Caesar.

But we pray that the Caesar's are endowed with the Wisdom and Love of Jesus, we don't mandate it thru legislation.

bartle

 2006/9/14 17:51
mamaluk
Member



Joined: 2006/6/12
Posts: 524


 Re: Brother J-Bird

Well said,Ironman

"we need to get it into our heads, hearts and spirits that God is [b]not on our side but that by Christ's blood we are now on His side.[/b] additionally God is working out His own agenda and not our own and we need to get on board with His agenda. Anything we set our minds and hearts to which is not [b]in accordance to His will[/b] is futile and will fail ultimately."

 2006/9/14 18:04Profile









 J-Bird "they might need to be offended".

Brother,
you didn't offend ME, not at all, I just believe your wrong. The last thing our country needs is to be assembling the dictates and doctrines of a nationalistic civic religion, that would masquarade under the mandate of "taking the nation back for christ".

Thats the "religion" I have a problem with, islamo-fascism WILL be faced down by us, but islamo-fascism would be the kissing cousin of such a nationalistic civic christianity, they would be bookends of the same hellish prediliction that man has towards "control" using the dictates of religion to control.

Do you get what I'm trying to say?

and brother, I gotta take issue with you on your stand about how people might need to be offended, or if you offended them you won't apologize...thats okay, but does that stand really reflect the Heart of Christ as spoken in the Beatitudes?

"Blessed are the meek.....blessed are the poor in spirit".....

Slam islam all you want, but I promise you that few will see Jesus in such postings.

again, I beg your forgiveness if I offended or angered you, I'm speaking my heart.

bartle

 2006/9/14 18:11
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re: J-Bird "they might need to be offended".

We need to pray that the "kingdom of God expands" and grows and multiplies admist the "world system" which includes america as a nation.

"These all died in faith,not having recieved the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were perusaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were [b]strangers and pilgrims[/b] on the earth." - Hebrews 11:13

HEAVENLY COUNTRY v16

I see it more alarming that false cults such as jehovah witnesses are "spiritually" stealing new born sheep in God's flock, one missionary stated the biggest hindrance in the mission fields right now is the false cults that creep in unawares and led people captive to falsehood.

The powers of occult are also crushing in. If ever there has been a time to enter into warfare on our [b]knees[/b] it is now, all other attempts will be futile, let us be diligent to pray with others for the kingdom of God to grow and its influence be felt in society at large. "your faith has been spread abroad." oh for those same days again 2000 years later.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/9/14 18:20Profile









 true Greg

Quote:
I see it more alarming that false cults such as jehovah witnesses are "spiritually" stealing new born sheep in God's flock, one missionary stated the biggest hindrance in the mission fields right now is the false cults that creep in unawares and led people captive to falsehood.




in the embryonic mission field of North Korea, one of the BIGGEST worries is that both the Jehovahs AND the Unification church (the moonies) are readying many workers to stream into North Korea once that anti-christ region implodes. And I might add the mooonies are spending BIG money within North Korea as we speak, to construct food factories, concessions, etc.....and i can count on one hand Full Gospel tentmakers who are training to evangelize the lost of this beleagered nation. I mean there are more than few who would evangelize North Korea, but the cults are working overtime in this countries regard.


anyway, I digress, Lord's blessing unto you bro, and I pray that I haven't angered our bro J-Bird.

bartle

off to work.

 2006/9/14 18:29









 Re: true Greg

Bro. Bartle you have not angered me. I am a little frustrated because it seems I'm being taken all wrong. I'm not "bashing" Islam I'm stating the truth.

Is this rhetoric Christlike? Jesus said some pretty stern things to the Pharisees. Paul said some pretty stern things to the Greeks. Elijah cut the heads off of the prophets of Baalam. He also mocked them to their face. You tell me. Is this type rhetoric biblical?

I'm not angry bro. just trying to press my point.

J-bird

 2006/9/14 19:10
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Just what has been lost?

Greetings everyone.

I would like to ask you all to consider exactly what has been lost to us in the United States.

To that end, I'd like to share some things from a book I have titled [b]Christianity and the American Commonwealth[/b] by [i]Charles B. Galloway[/i] which states the following things about several of the State Constitutions:

of New Jersey(1776) it says

"all persons professing a belief in the faith of [b]any Protestant sect[/b],... should be capable of being members of either branch of the Legislature,..."

of New Hampshire

that it "authorised and empowered" the towns thereof, "to make proper and adaquate provision for the maintenance of '[b]pulic Protestant teachers of piety, religion, and morality[/b].'"

of Deleware

that anyone who would hold public office should delcare "[b]I do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ his Son, and the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed forevermore; and I do acknowledge the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be given by divine inspiration[/b]."

of the organic law of North Carolina

that "[b]no person who should deny the being of God, or the truth of the Protestant religion,....should be capable of holding any office or [u]place of trust[/u] in the civil government of the state[/b]."

of Georgia(1777)

that every member of the House of Assembly "[b]shall be of the Protestant religion[/b]."

Similar things are stated about the constitutions of South Carolina and Massachusetts as well.

Brothers and sisters, would any of you assert that the loss of such qualifications for governemt officials is [b]preferrable[/b] to the current state of our political affairs whereby we may be [i]happily[/i] governend by athiests and witches? If so I hope you wouldn't be inclined also to argue over what the definition of 'is'.... is.


May we consider also, which of the two nations, this former one, or this presnt one, would be more likely to recieve the blessing of renewal and the radiant showers of divine favor upon its peoples. Would it be a bad thing then if the Bible was read in schools again? or if the Ten Commandments were displayed, inspite of fears that 'lest looking upon them, the children might be influenced to obey them.'

If none of these things seem impressive, then at least may we remember the warning of scripture

[b]The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.[/b]

That they forget God at least implies [b]they once knew Him[/b].



:-?

Perplexed,

Christopher Joel Dandrow


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2006/9/14 20:10Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

brethren
bro Greg said:

Quote:
The powers of occult are also crushing in. If ever there has been a time to enter into warfare on our knees it is now, all other attempts will be futile, let us be diligent to pray with others for the kingdom of God to grow and its influence be felt in society at large. "your faith has been spread abroad." oh for those same days again 2000 years later.



This is the key here, we ought to go on our knees before God. Only His hand can sort all this out and unless we're lining up with what He is doing, we're not going to achieve anything except getting in the way and getting hurt.

bro Greg, those days of 2000+ years ago are a lot closer than it seems so take heart because our redemption draweth near!

Come quickly indeed Lord!AMEN


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2006/9/14 20:39Profile





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