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Christinyou
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 Re:

What language did Wiggles worth speak. If you study the truth of the Word and give it to others, why use a tongue no one understands except the speaker and save time an give the truth in the first place. I see only one reason.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/7/16 0:52Profile
Christinyou
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 Re:

There is only one gifted One and He is the only one able to offer them to men. Hbr 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things [pertaining] to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: This is man even the gift giver of man giving gifts man to man.


This is the Heavenly Gift Giver. Hebrews 5:4-5 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Christ is all the gifts Himself and the Holy Spirit is the user of these gifts in men dispersed as He pleases. I don't see any gift used by man as of his own working. The Gift of Christ in us is the most important Gift. The Body building gifts are Used By The Holy Spirit to build the Body of Christ, His Church, which the gates of hell will not prevail against it, by the revelation of God that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. This is the revelation upon which Christ will build His Church. Matthew 16:17-18 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus did not need to speak in an unknown tongue or a heavenly language, He language. He needed no interpreter. He always spoke in truth with understanding to who ever he was speaking to. Paul was the same, Because he spoke more languages that us all. Paul needed no interpreter either. If the Holy Spirit is going to use the gift of Languages in a person, what the person says will be interpreted by the Holy Spirit in the person spoken to that Christ will be glorified, that is the precious work of the Holy Spirit to teach us Christ.

The Holy Spirit is the only One that can be trusted with the Gifts of Christ, to use and operate as He see's and to His good pleasure. No gift is a permanent operation in any person.

1Pe 4:11 If any man speak, [let him speak] as the oracles of God; if any man minister, [let him do it] as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Corinthians 12:28-30 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The ones set in the church are first, second and after that. After that are the gifts of the Spirit of Christ a dispersed and operated by the Holy Spirit as He pleases.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

The Gifts and Manifestation of the Spirit are give to every man, but is up to the Holy Spirit to use them. Not man to receive them and the Gift be His. I don't have the gift of tongues but the Holy Spirit has complete use of these Gifts given to men by Christ. If I am to speak to someone in a language I don't know to save them, by the Holy Spirit I will speak. By the Holy Spirit He prays for us in language we don't understand, by groaning to deep for us to understand, but the Prayer is Given, not by us, but for us. When you pray, pray with understanding.

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

I the spirit of a man pray, he should pray with understanding. Not separate, but also.

We don't sing in unknown tongues, we sing with our spirit and understanding also. Not separate.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/7/16 2:10Profile









 Re: About tongues, again ...

philologos said

Quote:
The word 'heard' here is 'akouO' (from whence we get 'acoustic') and the most natural sense is that they heard physically. Greek is rich in words to express mental perceptions but here it uses the simplest word of all which simply means they heard what someone said and the thing that someone said was in their 'own language'.

OK. Thanks.

I accept that the tongues were unknown, then, to the disciples and those outside particular language groups, but to those who recognised their own language and what God was saying to them, the miracle (and gift) was of being able to [u]speak a language[/u] which [i]could[/i] be understood by some - naturally.

 2006/7/16 8:04









 Re: About tongues, again...



Phillip, I think there is more than one discussion about the tongues mentioned in the New Testament. As above, there is the event in Acts 2 which led to the first three thousand converts, who as a result, were willing to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them; then, there is the matter of tongues being operated in church assemblies, when perhaps [i]no-one[/i] understands what is being said by the Spirit - except through the gift of interpretation..... and it is to this need, that Paul is giving guidance for the Corinthians, in 1 Cor 14. Implicit in both scenarios, is your point about 'understanding'. But do please note, that the disciples in Acts 2 were speaking in tongues which they themselves did not understand. If you will, the 'interpretation' was [i][b]already[/i][/b] with those who heard, because the tongue was their own [i]natural[/i] language.

There is no insistence in scripture, that believers [i]must[/i] speak in tongues, but it seems that many in the Corinthian church did have the gift, which they could use to communicate with God and to receive from God, quietly - even in church gatherings. For this, the gift of interpretation is unnecessary. Indeed, occasionally, a prayer in tongues is given interpretation by the Holy Spirit, [i]because[/i] the speaker does not understand what they are praying. Usually, though, the interpretation of a tongue given clearly to the whole assembly, when interpreted, is prophetic - that is, a word for the church (the Body) that day.... a fresh word from God.

 2006/7/16 8:05









 Re:

Stever responds to Dorcas, as well as Christinyou:

This is a true story. A dear friend of our family related this story to us of his wife, who went home to be with the Lord 20 years ago. Loraine was a Spirit Filled, baptized in the Holy Ghost beleiver. She prayed that God would Baptize her in the Holy Ghost and one day, while she was in the kitchen, the Spirit came upon her, and she started speaking in tongues. This baptism was followed by a ministry of leading the lost to Christ, as well as healing the sick.

One evening two young Mormon Missionaries came to her front door. Her Husband was there with her. She invited them into her home, and went through the scriptures with them. This went on for hours. Finally the Holy Spirit convicted her to speak in tongues. While she was speaking in tongues one of the two boys broke down in tears. He understood every word she spoke, while the other boy, as well as her husband, only heard the tongues. As the boys were leaving, the one who understood said to her that he didn't know what to do. His parents were Mormon. His fiance was Mormon, and all of his friends were Mormon. But now he knew that Jesus Christ was Lord!

He left her home in tears, saying as he left, that he had never heard such beautiful things, ever, than what he had heard from her that night. One boy heard what the Spirit had to say, while the other did not!


God bless,

Stever :-D
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Quote:

dorcas wrote:
philologos said
Quote:
The word 'heard' here is 'akouO' (from whence we get 'acoustic') and the most natural sense is that they heard physically. Greek is rich in words to express mental perceptions but here it uses the simplest word of all which simply means they heard what someone said and the thing that someone said was in their 'own language'.

OK. Thanks.

I accept that the tongues were unknown, then, to the disciples and those outside particular language groups, but to those who recognised their own language and what God was saying to them, the miracle (and gift) was of being able to [u]speak a language[/u] which [i]could[/i] be understood by some - naturally.

 2006/7/16 12:46
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Phillip

Quote:
What language did Wiggles worth speak. If you study the truth of the Word and give it to others, why use a tongue no one understands except the speaker and save time an give the truth in the first place. I see only one reason.



if our Lord decides it best for one to study the word and speak in another tongue (and provide the interpretation) who are we to question it. our Lord does some things which are really weird to us. it seems logical for one to study the word as in this case of smith wigglesworth and deliver it in english but evidently God can choose to do it any way He sees fit. for example God told Jeremiah to speak to His children about their need to repent and the coming judgement, He also proceded to tell Jeremiah that they wouldn't listen to Him, to which Jeremiah asked "so what's the point?" the issue is about obedience to whatever HE says not what is convenient or seems logical to us. this is the wisdom of God which is foolishness to us.

such gifts like tongues benefit the unbeliever and the new believer because they are a manifestation of of God's power. there is also the benefit of self edification when one prays in tongues as paul said to the corinthians but if one does speak in tongues at an assembly it should be when there can be an interpreter so everyone is edified. i've found that (like bro worldview) praying in tongues does indeed lift up my spirit, i don't always get an interpretation but it seems to me that the benefit of tongues and praying in them for the believer, is for the inner man primarily. sometimes i do receive visions concerning what i'm saying in tongues which works well as a means of interpreting coz the vision somehow is easier for me to grasp, i guess that's why our Lord shows me visions frequently.in our fellowship with my wife, mother-in-law and my brother-in-law James (jimm on this site), James seems to have that gift of interpretation operating constantly because our Lord instructed us to pray out loud in tongues and He's interpret through James. previously we'd pray quietly in tongues if we felt unctioned.

there is so much more to consider, our God will not be contained in neat little boxes but rather because He is God tends to explode out of our boxes once we confine Him, or at least that's what i've found.

Quote:
I see only one reason



would that be to show off? i've also found that when i see and have issue with a certain thing someone does (such as someone spending an obscene amount of money on say a car) it's because it's a thing i know that i'd be guilty of if i were in the same position. does God's gift of tongues operate in you?


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Farai Bamu

 2006/7/16 13:00Profile
IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Phillip

Quote:
We don't sing in unknown tongues, we sing with our spirit and understanding also. Not separate.



is this the Church in general or in your fellowship? i've found at times i've sung (ok, ok my voice is more like a noise, a not so outwardly joyful one to the Lord) in tongues praising our Lord and so has my brother-in-law James. what do we make of this?


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Farai Bamu

 2006/7/16 13:04Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Hi Steve,

This is what I have been saying all along. There are legitimate Languages spoken from Gods Children that the Holy Spirit is distributing a message to others through a gift that is absolutely specific for the enlightenment of the hearer to who Jesus Christ and what the Gospel of Christ in you the Hope of Glory is.

This is in what you have written the very reason the gift of Languages are given.

Quote:One evening two young Mormon Missionaries came to her front door. Her Husband was there with her. She invited them into her home, and went through the scriptures with them. This went on for hours. Finally the Holy Spirit convicted her to speak in tongues. While she was speaking in tongues one of the two boys broke down in tears. He understood every word she spoke, while the other boy, as well as her husband, only heard the tongues. As the boys were leaving, the one who understood said to her that he didn't know what to do. His parents were Mormon. His fiance was Mormon, and all of his friends were Mormon. But now he knew that Jesus Christ was Lord!

He left her home in tears, saying as he left, that he had never heard such beautiful things, ever, than what he had heard from her that night. One boy heard what the Spirit had to say, while the other did not!

This is specific direction by the Holy Spirit and I believe in this instance it was a wonderful clarification of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The young Mormon heard the Holy Spirit through this man's wife, he was the interpreter direct from the Holy Spirit through the wife into the Heart of this young Mormon and he new that Jesus was Lord. This is just like Acts 2, they heard the Gospel in their own language.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/7/16 17:09Profile
Christinyou
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Posts: 3707
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 Re:

Hi Linn,

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. Tongues are a necessary Gift? There is nothing new under the sun. There is nothing new in the Word of God, and is not to be added to. Within the Word are truths that we don't even know, but nothing new will be added to the completed Word, or else the plagues and curses will be added to the one adding.

Prophesy is already written in the bible. Prophesying is the revealing Of the Truth that is given in Gods dispensations of Time, when the fulfillment is attained. If you mean by a fresh word to the Church, a revealed truth that was already there, I agree. If you are saying God is giving prophesy for a person of something that adds or takes away from the Word of God, I disagree. Jesus did reveal to Paul how much he would suffer for Christ and His name sake. This is only done by direct revelation: Acts 9:16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. We are sent to: Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. That we might know what was revealed to Paul. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2006/7/16 17:43Profile









 Re: About tongues, again ...

Phillip said

Quote:
If you are saying God is giving prophesy for a person of something that adds or takes away from the Word of God, I disagree.

I was not suggesting that such prophecy should be added to the cannon of scripture. And, if the word was not adjudged to be from the Lord and in keeping with His written word, then, I would not receive it.

 2006/7/17 6:14





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