| Poster | Thread | brentw
Member
Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio
| | Re: | | Now were getting to the real issue I think...COMPASION!
The Lord has dealt with me just recently about preaching with compassion. I believe there will be NO compassion in our preaching without weeping over the lost before we go preach to them!! Jerm. 9:1
Weep day & night!
I remember J.Edwards daughter telling his congregation that "you say daddy preaches hard...but if you could here him weep for you behind closed doors..."
As William Booth told his discouraged church before coming home "try tears"
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Brent
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|  2006/6/21 19:34 | Profile | KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Quote:
Wesley said, "Preach 90% Law and 10% grace." And I completely agree with Wesley. A person must first understand their sin and then they will understand Christ.
I preach Jesus Christ. But there is a balance here that I think you are missing. Don't go from one extreme to the other. There is a balance. You seem to be promoting, "preach Jesus as Savior only" which is not biblical
I agree greatly with the principles about preaching the law of God in order bring the sinner to an awareness of their sin, and the judgment of God upon sin. And I am far from preaching Jesus as savior only, for I firmly believe that Jesus cannot be one's savior unless Jesus is one's Lord. I am not advocating some sort of easy belivism conversion stuff. I firmly believe and preach that there is no salvation outside of discipleship.
Quote:
We must preach wrath as well as forgiveness. We must preach God's anger as well as His love. We must preach God's hell as well as God's heaven. It's not one or the other, it's both.
Agreed. But where I'm really concerned here with you, and many other fellow street preachers is how little of Christ we actually preach. The Lord showed me once that I was guilty of preaching Christ only in order to further show the sinner how he was damned. And I think this is what many other street preachers are guilty of as well.
I think such can be seen especially in Ray Comfort's going through the 10 commandments approach, where he takes a sinner through each of the commandments and probes around to find if they are guilty of breaking one of them. It seems when it gets to things such as do not murder or do not commit adultery, Jesus' sermon on the mount is invoked simply to show how not only should we not commit adultery, but how we shouldn't lust either.
Frankly, this is the most I have heard Christ preached. Christ simply becomes another tool to attempt to convict somebody of their sin in much of our street preaching.
For you street preachers out there, ask yourselves these questions:
How often do you talk about how Christ raised the dead in your preaching? Do you talk about the man at Nain, or Lazaraus?
Do you talk about how Christ cast out the legion of devils?
Do you talk about how Christ calmed the sea?
Do you talk about how Christ multiplied the loaves and fishes?
Do you talk about the woman with the issue of blood?
Do you talk about the woman and the alabaster box and worship (remember, Christ said wherever the gospel was preached, she would be remembered!)
When you go about your preaching my fellow street preachers, is your preaching consumed with talking about the actual life and ministry of Jesus Christ?
If we read Acts closely and honestly, you will see such was done as much as hell-fire preaching was. If we were to spend 90% of our time preaching on sin, and then 10% on grace, we will have still missed a ton about the life of Christ which we are called to proclaim.
The only thing I must lament about Ray Comfort's ministry and the principles that he teaches is that many people have taken [b]a[/b] truth that Comfort has wonderful insight about, and made it [b]the[/b] truth. So much so that when we read the book of Acts, we can count all the places that the apostles preached against sin and called people to repentance, but we also fail to notice in the process they were equally consumed about telling others about the entire life and ministry of Christ.
And just a side note, if we were to really be as studious about this, and as Biblical as possible, scholars have generally identified 10 topics that we see happen over and over again in all the preaching recorded in the New Testament. I would have to consult a book or two to fully elaborate on those 10 things, however, suffice to say such should show us that the gospel the early church preached was much broader, and they were consumed with much more than a "turn or burn" message.
Wesley also once said "I gave them Christ!"
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Jimmy H
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| | 2006/6/21 22:48 | Profile | KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Quote:
While I agree that it's possible to preach too little of Christ, I disagree that it is possible to preach too much against sin.
I'm all in favor of preaching against sin. We need more of it. However, it is possible and often done, that street preachers tend to preach too much against sin. If sin is the center of your message instead of Christ, then you've preached too much against sin. Your preaching should be characterized by the world as focusing on Christ, not sin. This is what we see over and over again in the New Testament.
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Jimmy H
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| | 2006/6/21 22:58 | Profile | allhavsinned
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Joined: 2005/8/1
Posts: 201
North West England
| | Re: | | I just read this from a link on the 'letter to street preachers' thread...
Christians are to testify to:
The immortality of the soul. (The fact that conscious existence goes on forever - as this is clearly revealed in the Bible.)
The vanity and unsatisfying nature of all earthly good.
The fulfilling nature and glorious sufficiency of serving Jesus.
The guilt of sinners - and the reality of hell as a place of eternal punishment for them.
The love of Christ for sinners.
The necessity of a holy life, if we think of ever living for eternity in the presence of God. Without holiness, "no one shall see the Lord." (Heb. 12:14)
The necessity of self-denial and of living above the world.
The necessity of meekness, humility, and heavenly-mindedness.
The necessity of complete integrity and an entire renovation of character and life for all who would enter heaven. (Of course, it should be made clear that this, as well as the previous three, are only attainable by fully submitting by faith to Christ.)
How To Be A Witness
...For the Right Side
Charles G. Finney
for the complete article: http://www.lastdaysministries.org/articles/howtobeawitness.html
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Ste
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| | 2006/6/21 23:05 | Profile | KingJimmy
Member
Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Jesus once said that the weightier issues of the law are justice, mercy, and faithfulness. These are the major sins Jesus said. Homosexuality didn't seem to make that list, hmm....
My fellow street preachers, when you preach against sin, do you denounce:
injustice?
harshness?
unfaithfulness?
These are the big sins Jesus said. Yet I imagine these are the sins we preach against the least. They are the ones that demand your fullest attention. Yet how many of you have preached against them? Do they regularly make it into your list of sins?
I dare say if they don't, then you've never preached against sin.
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Jimmy H
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| | 2006/6/21 23:19 | Profile |
| | Brother Jesse | | you wrote
Quote:
Through His Word God has called all Christians to preach the gospel of repentance and remission.
Through His Word Jesus the Lord has called us to love the Lord our God with all our heart mind and soul, AND He told us to love our neighbors as ourselves.....THAT IS what He called us individually to do.
Paul the Apostle detailed that the Church, that is the Body of Christ, would have different individuals as the natural body has different parts, some are meant to teach and preach, some are meant to exhort, some are meant to serve, others are meant to be encouragers, etc. The Church, the precious Body of Christ that lives IN US, has many members.
Let me frank, blunt, in the love of Christ, something hard, hard-edged has crept into your dialogue. Something unwilling to engage in self examination, something pharaisical that "just knows" that you are right, righteous, and everyone else is wrong.
It's religious pride, the food of the pharisee, watch out brother, it's poison and will rot the muscles of your heart and stumble many. Refusing to even consider the validity of the correction you have recieved on this forum is indicative of this religious pride
I may be a worm of Christ Jesus, and a nothing, just refuse of the earth, but how do you know, that I might not be giving you a Word?
Why did not you even address what I suggested to you?....that you go and love on, and pray with homosexuals dying in Aids hospices, and tell them of this glorious Gospel, wonderous beautiful Jesus Who took their sins upon his bent and battered body that so even in this 11th hour they may recieve such provisions of Grace.
do you really want to waste your time outside bars engaged in shrieking matches with drunks, or bad scenes at Texas swimming holes ? How is Jesus being served by such witness?
You sure you might not be addicted to the adrenalin rush of the street confrontation?
Dear Jesse, I said my piece in the leading of His Spirit and I beg your forgiveness if I offended you, I urge you to prayerfully consider what has been said by others on this forum.
bartle |
| | 2006/6/22 1:34 | | crsschk
Member
Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Re: | | Well, here goes ...
Almost hate to feel obligated to have the preface, the classic ... "While I appreciate the ..." Followed by the "But..."
All you brothers who are out there confronting the world, boldly in heart and spirit, willing to or maybe better stated compelled to share the Gospel with all walks of life in all kinds of difficult and even dangerous situations ... That I prayed more for each and everyone of you and that all those here would do likewise, regardless of thought's and opinions on manner and style. You are doing what many would not do, I would include myself in those ranks ... to a point.
That point is partially just by way of observance so I don't really know what I am talking about by experience. The one thing I haven't heard here as of yet is just the reliance upon the Holy Spirit. Not that anyone in their right mind would be out there doing this without Him, but do you guy's rely on the promptings as to what to speak in any given situation? For instance in the situation that this whole post surrounds or has been maybe even overestimated from what Jesse is stating, seem to recall that this was just a part ...
There is something just a bit peculiar about the "[i]how to's[/i]" being offered across the board when the situation isn't really the determining factor ... I think. Again, I don't pretend to know so it is as much a question as anything. What I seem to recall very much from Robert's preaching as he has expressed it here from time to time and as just one of many examples, that he is more concerned with bringing the message the Lord wants conveyed in that particular moment. If it is not too forward of me saying so, that he would just as soon shelve a 'prepared' topic or sermon if he felt the Lord wanted to go in a entirely different direction. What I perceive a bit here is a reactionary impulse often times to the surroundings and of course how could one but not do that, seems quite normal. Could only imagine when one is faced with this sort of thing, the hecklers and the drunks outside of bars, the beach ... That this would be quite normal to react against. [i]But[/i] ...
Surely balance, but Whose and when and in which situation? I have long since sensed a very dangerous word for the Christian is [i]Always[/i] when it comes to the things of the Lord. To use a very poor analogy, it does seem to me in my experience that the Lord is often throwing curve-balls to what I [i]think[/i] ought to be done, said or not said. Have found by long experience that a great deal of trouble has been caused by mu unwillingness to often just keep my mouth shut and a great deal of good done by not having a concern about it other than that I am paying attention and listening, praying constantly to hear the Lords still quiet voice, and then speak if need be.
Hard for a street preacher I am sure, how does he stay quiet? That's not really the emphasis here though. Thinking greatly of how the Lord Himself behaved in front of the crowds He was addressing, or Paul. Different at different times and not seemingly premeditated. That the Lord more often than not left His listeners with more questions than answers, probing questions to be sure, right to the heart. Paul's being prompted to [i]not preach[/i] by the Holy Spirit but to go somewhere else, again not [i]always[/i].
This will likely be misconstrued but when I first began to be led into the Light and still had much to learn ... My wife and I went to go see Metallica, yes, those guy's. Had won tickets off the radio and it was when they were recording with the San Francisco Symphony. [i]Different[/i] to say the least ... But while we were in line there were a couple of guy's with their big signs, "God hates____" so on and so forth, they were pretty vocal and ... The strangest thing I have never forgotten was as we were standing in line and my eye's met with one of them and he never again uttered a word the rest of the time we were in line, it struck me as very odd and do hope nothing gets read into that. I don't really know ... why. But I was quietly praying underneath that they seemed genuinely sincere even in all their rallying, but also quite angry, misdirected, bitter. Wanted to say something, that I was a 'new believer' and ...
Don't have a particular conclusion here, just thought I would share.
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Mike Balog
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| | 2006/6/22 1:40 | Profile | Christisking
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Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California
| | Re: | | You are right Mike we must be lead by the Holy Spirit. I personal will not preach unless the Lord has given me a message and directed me to preach. See, we must understand that we don't know what to say or do, but God knows exactly what to say and what he wants us to do. We need to speak directed by the Spirit letting Him speak through us and not of our own understanding. If the Lord has not given me a word then I seek Him as what he would have me do - one to one witness, intercede, observe (maybe he wants to teach me something), serve, etc. One weekend I didn't preach or one to one witness at all either Sat or Sun, but I spent about 8-10 hours in the park praying and interceding for those were preaching and witnessing.(under the direction and guidance of the Holy Spirit) The point is we should not lean on our own understand and let what we think is good lead us away from the perfect will of God. We must by lead by the Spirit and walk in the Spirit constantly drawing and pressing closer to
God and seeking, hungering and thirsting after His perfect will.
I may be more sensitive to this now because of the people we are witnessing to. I had some sense and knowledge of being lead by the Spirit when witnessing say at the Super Bowl or the Final Four Basketball games, but when witnessing to crack and heroin addicts, drug dealers, gang members, prostitutes, homeless, pimps, etc. you have to be in the Spirit and rely on Him for what to say and do. This does in no way lessen the fact that we need to be lead by the Spirit and let Him do the talking no matter who we are witnessing to. God knows what to say and when to say it- not us.
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Patrick Ersig
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| | 2006/6/22 2:20 | Profile | KingJimmy
Member
Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Quote:
Not that anyone in their right mind would be out there doing this without Him, but do you guy's rely on the promptings as to what to speak in any given situation?
This is being addressed in the other Letter to Street Preachers through. However, to the grieving of my heart, I must say that once in an article I read of Jesse's that he said street preaching is more of a skill and art form than a gift from God. I don't know if he still holds to that statement, I hope not. I know he speaks of anointing some, but such does not seem to the foundation of his operations.
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Jimmy H
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| | 2006/6/22 6:24 | Profile | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: What is an ambassador of Christ | | I appreciate these last several posts they help me articulate what my calling really is as an ambassador of Christ.
Quote:
So, how is everyone getting edified from this thread?
This question caught my attention. It got me thinking. Why am I hanging around this thread, when it feels like a waste of time. In fact, I received one hostile private email in response, demanding that I repent of my attitude. (I wonder how often our mods receive such things)
It makes me realize how close the household of God walks towards tribalism and witch-hunts. Right this minute I am thinking of three people who have become atheists because of what they saw in the church.
It breaks my heart when Gods people are so quick to attack the sins that they themselves abhor. Yet they dont bat an eyelash at the gross injustice and exploitation of humanity going on all around. In fact many are schmoozing the very ones who are subtly using them those important people, giving them the seat of honor.
I was once a good Christian (on the outside) sincere and dedicated. In my past, the same preachers who would spew out hellfire on the bikini-clad female and the homosexual would also heap all kinds of affirmation on me thus reinforcing my own hypocritical deception. It makes me wonder if the bikini-lady is safer than the pleaser-churchlady.
I have come to this conclusion:
There are two places where it is dangerous to assess the spiritual condition of someone: the church and the beach. Our conclusions are too easily obscured by outer appearance, and that affects the way we treat people.
There are disparate needs all around us, though easily masked. Countless are beat up, worn, and despairing, but all we see is their spiked hair black lipstick. Dare we beat them up some more? We have lost our ability to give out cups of cold water. We cant weep with or for the wounded anymore. Like them, we have become numb.
People are committing suicide on a daily basis because they cant cope any longer. Our counselling agencies and health facilities are over run. Yet our churches are empty most of the week impotent, fixated on programs and rituals, and wasting our time over a bit of fabric, or some other thing they can do nothing about, or liability policies.
Cancer and other diseases are ramped. We are killing ourselves in all kinds of ways like over consumption of unhealthy foods. And yet we Christians dont bat an eyelash. In fact, we even practise gluttony ourselves, sanctified at our potlucks. My, how easily we overlook all the sins that are our own.
We use the word, sin to refer to outer manifestations, clothing, addictive behaviors, sexual orientation, etc. But we havent even begun to address sin. I know you will disagree. But I say, we havent even come near the core of the heart separation from God, trying to live with out him.
Our zealous preachers may indeed succeed in generating a form or repentance: ladies may very well dress better, but this only ends up polishing the outer cup. Then these people are worse than before, for now, they have some self-righteousness to wrap around themselves.
So, if anything, I hope this thread causes us all to examine our lives: Do we radiate the glory of Christ, or are we just wearing ourselves out, resorting to manipulative and controlling attempts to change others?
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2006/6/22 9:40 | Profile |
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