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Christisking
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Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 671
Los Angeles, California

 Re:

Yes KingJimmy my sentiments exactly. Jesse don't let the devil take you off on a rabbit trail. The issue is not about bikinis but it is about your preaching. I don't condone or defend bikinis but I am highly critical of the preaching. It is your preaching that is the issue not bikinis. I have also become concerned for you and as you know, have been trying to urge you to get DEAD serious about purity in preaching and keeping your tongue free from the fires of Hell.


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Patrick Ersig

 2006/6/21 17:54Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Wesley said


Have you actually read any of his sermons, there is alot more Jesus and grace, love, mercy preaching then you would expect.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/6/21 17:55Profile
brentw
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Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

As I read this I think of Ravenhills interview when he talked about a preacher at a swimming pool for the first time with their family....and the preacher realised his childeren were seeing their mom nearly naked for the first time...and the preacher left after being grieved over what he was seeing in public, and another man left soon after he did, Ravenhill said.

Someone said 2 pc. or 1 pc. where do we draw the line??? Where is the line drawn when watching tv?? How much filth do you let in before you turn it off or "leave it?"

How do you go to a beach and see half naked or (in my opinion naked) women and not wrestle with thoughts....not good thoughts??? As I said before they leave nothing to imagine! I really think WE or alot of us have gotten used to the darkness we live in.

EXAMPLE: Yellow Springs Ohio is a witch haven...witch craft stores and so on... AND yet NO ONE in the town sees it as darkness! They laugh at you...."O whats wrong with the TARA CARD store its all for fun" they say...
Charles Manson wants to move their to...

So whats my point here....WE are so used to nakedness in our society...WE dont see it anymore as wrong or sinful or immodest!

Before long we'll have so called christians going to real nudest beaches....and someone will say "where do you draw the line??" Hmmmm...


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Brent

 2006/6/21 17:57Profile









 Re:

While I agree that it's possible to preach too little of Christ, I disagree that it is possible to preach too much against sin.

If I am guilty of anything, may it be that I preach too hard or too much against sin!! It is sin which seperates men from God. It was sin that nailed Christ to the cross. It is sin that sends souls that God loves to eternal hell. If I preach too much against anything, may I preach too much against sin!

 2006/6/21 17:58









 Re:

Quote:
I really think WE or alot of us have gotten used to the darkness we live in.



That is what I am seeing as well.

 2006/6/21 18:00
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 Re:

Quote:
If I am guilty of anything, may it be that I preach too hard or too much against sin!!


Can we be guilty of preaching wrongly? Can we preach too hard against sin, is there a point when this is wrong and leads people away from Christ instead of too Him? Or do we all go out there and even in our zealousness [b]bash[/b] people telling them how disgustingly sinful and vile their life's are and how far they are away from God in their pathetic sinful selfish state?

Can we preach against sin without compassion? is that wrong? Where is the place to show love and compassion or is it in always yelling to warn people against their sins (even though that can be a [b]part[/b] of compassion). Can it be done in a wrong way?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/6/21 18:15Profile









 Re:

A preacher who doesn't have compassion is no preacher that belongs to Jesus.

True compassion is deep, internal pain and agony over the lost condition of sinners.

 2006/6/21 18:18
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 Re:

I would be great if you could answer some of my questions I posted here:

Quote:
Can we be guilty of preaching wrongly? Can we preach too hard against sin, is there a point when this is wrong and leads people away from Christ instead of too Him? Or do we all go out there and even in our zealousness bash people telling them how disgustingly sinful and vile their life's are and how far they are away from God in their pathetic sinful selfish state?

Can we preach against sin without compassion? is that wrong? Where is the place to show love and compassion or is it in always yelling to warn people against their sins (even though that can be a part of compassion). Can it be done in a wrong way?



Jesse said:
Quote:
True compassion is deep, internal pain and agony over the lost condition of sinners.


How does that practically play out in our Christian life with unbelievers? Can it be done in a wrong way? is sharing the love of Jesus with people who are unbelievers a wrong thing to do?

I just posted this in another thread:
[b]A Letter to Street Preachers[/b]
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=11119&forum=35

I will quote it below to show a extermity of some of these things we are talking about that is very unhealthy and un-christian:

Quote:
This is a link off Jed Smocks website: http://www.brojed.org/friendlies.html

Things like this are ridiclous and bringing shame to the name of Christ:


-----
ATTENTION WATCHMEN

THE WICKED WILL SOON BE PRANCING IN OUR STREETS AND THEREFORE MUST BE WARNED, SO GO STAND IN THE GAP. DO NOT WITNESS, DO NOT SING, DO NOT BEFRIEND, DO NOT JUSTIFY, DO NOT JUST PRAY, DO NOT JUST TEACH AGAINST THEM IN CHURCH…….GO…….GO……. CHARGE…….RUN……..RUSH THE ENEMY…….CONFRONT THE DARKNESS WITH LIGHT…….ATTACK GOD’S FOE WITH BOLDNESS AND TRUTH (2TIM.4:2).

from:
http://www.officialstreetpreachers.com/HOMO%20TIME/HOMOTIME.html



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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2006/6/21 18:32Profile









 Re: Chanin's post

Hi Chanin,

Just a couple things here. First, about wearing a bikini sends a woman to hell. Jesse said that it is sufficient to send a woman to hell. In other words it’s a sin. But I haven’t got the picture that Jesse was insinuating that a woman loses her salvation if she wears such attire.
It’s great you mentioned Nancy Leigh DeMoss. Unfortunately we don’t have our program in our area and I don’t have highspeed Internet…so I have to read the transcripts. Have you heard all of Nancy’s teaching on modesty? I bought her series from last year and it was excellent. Has your daughter heard it? I think if we Christian ladies really have a love for God and love for our brothers, when God gives us the light as to what defrauds and causes someone to stumble, we will quickly turn and repent of being the cause of sin in another’s life. Yes, it sometimes is dying to what we may want. Sure it’s more comfortable to dress in a certain way, but I deny myself that right so the men around me don’t stumble and fall.
Have you read any of the resources that Nancy has mentioned? One of them is called ‘The Public Undressing of America’ by Jeff Pollard. Excellent book on this topic.
As to the bathing suit, 2 pc vs 1 pc, well, I don’t think either one is modest. Both reveal and accentuate the form of a female body in a way that only her husband should see.
As to your excuse for your daughter’s swimming attire being that no young guys are around…well, this problem isn’t just limited to the young male generation…
Just to give a solution for swimming attire, visit www.wholesomewear.com They have the best selection that I have ever seen for swimwear.

You are so right about it being a heart issue. And I hope and pray that every woman (and father and husband as the protectors of their daughters and wife) really search their hearts on this matter. I was reading this morning in 2 Corinthians about the Judgment Seat of Christ. I want to stand up as a woman and know that I lived my life in a way that was wholly pleasing to the Lord Jesus Christ and that this temple that He has given me has been used for His glory in a holy and pure way.

God bless you, my sister, as you seek to know more of Him!


~Joy

 2006/6/21 18:43









 Re:

I want to elaborate more on my previous post:

A preacher who doesn't have compassion is no preacher that belongs to Jesus. True compassion is deep, internal pain and agony over the lost condition of sinners. True compassion is not dealing lightly with sin. Rather, true compassion will cause someone to deal very strongly with sin.

Just as a preacher who doesn't have compassion does not belong to Jesus, so also a preacher who does not preach hard against sin, calling men to repent, does not belong to Jesus.

The preacher who will not preach, "unless you repent you will all likewise perish" does not follow in the foot steps of Jesus. The preacher who does not "reason about sin, self-control, and judgment to come" does not follow in the example given by the Apostle Paul.

My question is, why is it that if a preacher preaches hard against sin, he is automaticly accused of not being compassionate or having tears for sinners? I would say that man who does not preach hard against sin gives signs of not having compassion and tears for sinners!


Question: Can we be guilty of preaching wrongly?

Yes. A preacher who uses unbiblical methods, has an unbiblical message, or has an unbiblical motive preaches wrongly.

Question: Can we preach too hard against sin?

While I agree that it's possible to preach too little of Christ. I do not agree that it's possible to preach too hard or too much against sin.

Question: Is there a point when this is wrong and leads people away from Christ instead of too Him?

The entire belief that sinners are on a neutral ground, not having decided for or against Christ, is unbiblical. Christ taught men are either for Him or against Him.

Sinners may use the excuse of "hard preaching against sin" to say why they don't want to come to Christ. But it is further evidence of their guilt. They don't want to come to Christ because they know it requires leaving their sin, and that is unthinkable to the man who loves his sin. They choose darkness over the light.

Question: Or do we all go out there and even in our zealousness bash people telling them how disgustingly sinful and vile their life's are and how far they are away from God in their pathetic sinful selfish state?

The only word I disagree with her is "bash". We are not to bash anyone. We are to preach the gospel. Are to to be zealous? Yes! Along with knowledgable. Are we to describe how disgustingly sinful and vile their lives are? Yes! Along with telling them how wonderful, and glorious, and beautiful Christ is. Are we to tell them how pathetic life is without Christ? Yes! Along with telling them how meaningful and purposeful it is with Christ. Are we to warn how sinful and selfish their lives are? Absolutely. Because sin is what seperates man from God and selfishness is the root of all sin!

Question: Can we preach against sin without compassion? is that wrong?

Yes and I fear many preachers do preach against sin without compassion and it's terribly wrong. The bible says owe no one anything except for love. And we do owe them love.

Question: Where is the place to show love and compassion or is it in always yelling to warn people against their sins (even though that can be a part of compassion). Can it be done in a wrong way?

Yes love will warn the wicked of the terrible hell that awaits them. True compassion should move us to get out into a lost and dying world with the life giving message of Jesus Christ.

John Wesley said, "For God's sake, don't yell". And I agree. And open air preacher should never yell. Raise his voice yes. Talk yes. Preach yes. But yell, no.

We must warn the wicked with a right spirit. We ought to love people enough to be willing to be thought a fool and a heretick as to do what the modern church refuses to do, preach hard against sin. We are not to take sin lightly, God and the devil don't! Sin is a killer. Sin is vicious. Sin is playing for keeps. We are to be merciless towards unrepented sin because God is. We must show the ugliness and vileness and evilness of sin. And we must do so with the right spirit, with the right motive, and with the right means.

Question: How does that [compassion]practically play out in our Christian life with unbelievers? First and foremost it ought to lead us into days of deep prayer and fasting. Two, it should lead us to warn them of the terrible future that awaits them if they remain apart from Christ.

Question: is sharing the love of Jesus with people who are unbelievers a wrong thing to do?

Jesus never gave the gospel to a proud, self-righteous, arrogent, unrepented sinner. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. Even John 3:16, which the modern Church broadcasts to the entire world, Jesus only gave to one person, a humble pharisee.

There is a time for sharing the message of God's wrath and there is a time to share about God's love. But if a preacher EVER gives the impression that God is not angry with unrepented sinners, and that God accepts them as they are, that preachers is out of the will of God and out of the safety of the scriptures.

A message that, "God loves you as you are" or "God accepts you as you are" can strengthen sinners in their sin. The false prophets in the old testament always said, "peace, peace" when there is no peace. And there are many false prophets today who give the impression that God accepts sinners as they are, without telling them the threatenings of the Law.

A true preacher will preach both the threatenings of the Law and also the promises of the gospel. Be careful not to go from one extreme to the other. There are preachers who focus only on God's anger. And there are preachers who focus only on the love of God. But we must preach both!




 2006/6/21 19:00





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