| Poster | Thread | IRONMAN
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IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| | there is power in the blood indeed. | | bro Stever
Quote:
Revelation, Chapter 1
5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD,
6. And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
the blood takes away our sins so we can be kings and priests before our Lord!
Quote:
Revelation Chapter 5
7. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by THY BLOOD out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10. And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
that seems to me to speak of the propitiation on our behalf that Christ paid so we could be reconciled to the Father.
Quote:
Revelations Chapter 19
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture DIPPED IN BLOOD: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
is His vesture dipped in His own blood or is it that of His enemies? i still don't see where the blood of Christ can be applied in any other place but the taking away of our sin. After all therein lies our reconcilliation to the Father and our access to His throne for whatever we need/desire in Christ's name.
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Farai Bamu
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|  2006/6/28 18:15 | Profile | IRONMAN
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IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| | Re: | | bro brent
Quote:
I still plead the BLOOD over my family....I dont plead over my material things but family... the Blood does signify protection.
i'm unsure if the blood is meant to be used even in this way. the word says the blood was shed for the remission of sins, nothing more beyond that i'm aware of. when you do this though is it in this context of asking the Lord to cleanse the sins of your family or something else? it seems to me that by having our sins taken away, the enemy has nothing to attack us with which seems to me this is where the protection comes from.
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Farai Bamu
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| | 2006/6/28 18:38 | Profile | Logic
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Posts: 1791
| | Re: | | brentw wrote: Quote:
I still plead the BLOOD over my family....
Is your family saved?
If they are, you have no need to plead the blood over them, because God sees it already.
If they aren't saved, pleading the blood the blood is futile because the don't have it on them.
Quote:
the Blood does signify protection.
This is wrong, the blood signifies satisfaction of a debt which is death.
Also from Gods' wrath. |
| | 2006/6/28 19:41 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Stever responds to Logic and Philologos:
Ravenhill pleaded the blood over his family. I suppose you think he was dead wrong as well?
God bless,
Stever :-D
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Quote:
Logic wrote:
brentw wrote:Quote:
I still plead the BLOOD over my family....
Is your family saved?
If they are, you have no need to plead the blood over them, because God sees it already.
If they aren't saved, pleading the blood the blood is futile because the don't have it on them.
Quote:
the Blood does signify protection.
This is wrong, the blood signifies satisfaction of a debt which is death.
Also from Gods' wrath.
Philologos posted:
Quote:
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Nothing but the Blood of Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!
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which means the substitionary and penal death of Christ in payment for the sins of the world is the only basis upon which God can pour out His life giving Spirit.
I sing these hymns all the time but I know they are referring to Calvary and what was accomplished there.
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Ron B
www.biblebase.com
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| | 2006/6/28 21:48 | | Logic
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| | Re: | | Stever wrote: Quote:
Ravenhill pleaded the blood over his family. I suppose you think he was dead wrong as well?
Don't rely on another man for defence, tell me how my offence is in error from the scripture. |
| | 2006/6/28 22:40 | Profile | IRONMAN
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IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| | Re: | | Ravenhill has been wrong before. if there is no basis for such a practice (and i don't think there is)then he's wrong and so is everyone else who practises such and so we need to get right.
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Farai Bamu
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| | 2006/6/28 22:48 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
Ravenhill has been wrong before. if there is no basis for such a practice (and i don't think there is)then he's wrong and so is everyone else who practises such and so we need to get right.
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Quote from Logic:
"Don't rely on another man for defence, tell me how my offence is in error from the scripture."
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Stever responds to Logic and Ironman:
I'll try this once again--
The phrase 'pleading the blood' is often used by Christians.
What does it mean to plead the blood of Jesus?
Pleading the blood simply means applying the blood to our life and circumstances just like the Israelites applied it to their door posts and were protected from the destroyer (Exodus 12).
Pleading the blood is simply the taking hold of the authority and power available to us by the death and resurrection of Jesus.
How do we plead the blood of Jesus?
Revelation 12:10-11 "10. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11. And THEY OVERCAME HIM BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB, AND BY THE WORD OF THEIR TESTIMONY; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
Jesus has shed His blood and made it available for every believer to use. Our mouths play the same role as the bunch of hyssop the Israelites used. We are to use our mouths to apply the blood. Knowing about the blood is not sufficient, speaking about the power of the blood is also necessary.
Speaking with our mouths is important in enforcing our victory (Romans 10:10).
We plead the blood by confessing the salvation and deliverance the blood has brought us.
Lets us use a simple illustration to drive home this point.
Imagine the world as a big courtroom.
God is the Judge sitting on the throne (Hebrews 12:23)
Jesus is your advocate, standing beside you to argue your case (1John 2:1) He reminds the Judge that He died and shed His blood for you.
The devil, satan, is your accuser bringing charges and even attacks against you (Revelation 12:10, Zechariah 3:1)
When an accusation is brought against a person in a law court the defendant, if innocent, can greatly increase His or her chances of being acquitted by producing a reliable witness.
Here lies the power of pleading the blood.
Although we were not physically there when Jesus died, His shed blood bears witness to the fact that He died, rose again and defeated the powers of darkness (Colossians 2: 15). All witnesses need to speak. Remember the blood is living and speaks (Hebrews 12: 24). When we actively plead (speak out) the blood into the negative circumstances and attacks satan brings against us, we are bringing a powerful witness to speak on our behalf (1 John 5:8).
Pleading or speaking the blood causes the blood of Jesus to speak out on our behalf and stops the attacks of satan. Any time you sense the hosts of darkness coming against you plead the blood of Jesus against.
You can use whatever words the Holy Spirit lays on your heart to do this. A good example is below.
"Your forces of darkness attacking my home and life, I command you to stop in Jesus name. I hold the blood of Jesus against you. The blood of Jesus has defeated you. The blood of Jesus has set me free. The blood of Jesus avails for me. I plead the blood of Jesus over my home, my life and my family. I protect them from your attacks. I walk in the freedom Jesus' death has brought me. Amen"
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God bless,
Stever :-D
Hebrews 13:12 "20. Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE EVERLASTING COVENANT,"
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| | 2006/6/29 1:33 | | Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | The physical blood of even Jesus is not needed anymore it was shed on the altar once and need not and will not ever be shed again. Christ went to the Cross once and once only. Quit putting Him back on the Cross and using the precious blood to plead anything.
About Satan, If you stay away from the things of Satan even to acknowledge that he has any power over the Christian is saying the Blood failed. If the Blood of Christ is to be used in the way you profess It makes a mockery of His Life that God the Father gave that we might be saved. It is His life that gives us life not the blood of His death. The only thing the blood is to be used for is to remember it was shed of you and every time you take communion we are honoring Him by remembering it, not using it to get what we think is power in the blood. The power in the blood is the Life of Christ in us. We don't plead the Body of Christ but we are to remember it also everytime only in remembrance of Him and His death that we might have life. Pleading the Blood is a pure church religious works use and wrongly used to protect and get what they want.
Jhn 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. Not in His Blood. He is our life.
He is our propitiation. He sits at the right hand of God the Father and we sit with Him. Jesus Christ is our all. If you change Plead to remember I am sure God the Father would be remembrance of what Christ did on the Cross just to get son's for our Father.
The blood over the door posts is long gone. Israel was told to remember what had happen not plead that blood of goats to get what they wanted.
As we remember what His Blood did, knowing it is His Life in us that pleases the Father and nothing else we do, especially pleading the Blood or anything else that takes away for His Person, the resurrected living Christ born again in the Believer.
He is our Armour against the ruler and powers that are in charge of the non believers, not us.
This is the proper protection of all that believe. Rom 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
2Cr 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Armour of Light, Armour of righteousness on the right and the left, The whole Armour of God, Who casts off the works of darkness, You do, by Christ who is the Armour.
Because of the Blood of Christ we are in Christ.
Phillip
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| | 2006/6/29 7:36 | Profile | RobertW
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Posts: 4636
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| | Re: | | Quote:
Ravenhill pleaded the blood over his family. I suppose you think he was dead wrong as well?
I am not sure why he would have done this. Was it a common practice that was done or did it happen on one or perhaps a few occasions? God did not tell me to step out of the boat, but we don't have "walk on water" techniques being used.
There are many things that are done that have went on without being questioned that came about as a one time directive from God. I do not know in this case, I am speaking in general terms. This is a common practice in our circles. It is similar to the practice of just sweepingly 'rebuking' the devil. God has given us instructions on how to do things and we try to do what worked once or flat 'make up' some other thing to try to accomplish the same end. The angel stirred the water and the first person in was healed. The second person received no such healing. I think there is a great lesson here.
Again, the idea at first seems to be rooted in our deferring to the finished work of the cross as our 'plea.' "For my pardon this my plea, nothing but the blood of Jesus." As I have thought about it more I recall also a passage of scripture that used to be quoted to 'stop bleeding.'
And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live. (Ezekiel 16:6)
The origin of this concept is likely as simple as the Lord quickening the passage to a persons heart, using His prerogative when quoting the scriptures, and applying it to a specific 'one time' situation. What happens is that folk then try to keep using that as if it were a perpetual solution to help when anyone was seriously bleeding (cut, hemmorage, etc.). Now we have the scriptures being used in an almost superstitious way and the result is that the passage (Ezekiel 16:6) is relagated to 'wives fable' status and the context is lost.
This is why the scripture says, "[u]TODAY[/u] if you will hear His voice." To take what God quickened to our hearts yesterday for a specific situation and try to carry it into today or share what God did as if it were some new 'method' is to keep the manna stored up as did Israel. God specifically told the people not to do that. Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. This is a [i]daily communion[/i] with God and an ongoing attitude of submission to His direction. The indictment upon man is that God is not inquired of in specific situations when these methods are formed based on what God did at some point in the past, hence, Proverbs 3:5,6 are out the window. Why should we pray and seek God, we have the scriptures? Why pray and get direction from God when we know He has done this certain thing this certain way before. Some things are certainly scriptural to do at all times, but never to the exclusion of our inquiring of the LORD when we need specific direction for a situation. Commandments are an exception to this. Sin is [i]sin[/i] no matter how much we pray.
Hope that makes some sense...
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| | 2006/6/29 8:39 | Profile | crsschk
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| | Re: Consider | | Stever,
I wonder, and please note the non-accusatory sentiment here... But do you ever truly consider others expressions here that might be contradictory to your own? Hope to broaden that to the other side as well ... What I mean is even after giving my 2 cents worth earlier there is still some more thought given to this, other considerations, things that I may not have taken into account.
One of those is in that this usage I am aware is 'done' by a variety of those we may esteem and taken to other extremes by those who would fall into the category of this days ... mechanisms, that realm of Christendom that can only unfortunately be noted for it's cheapening of the noble Name we profess.
Quote:
There are many things that are done that have went on without being questioned...
Would take off on Robert's comment there and ask again, why? It is the same as to the reasoning you give here;
Quote:
The phrase 'pleading the blood' is often used by Christians.
To be honest I figured at some point or other the similar phraseology would come into play;
Quote:
"Your forces of darkness attacking my home and life, I command you to stop in Jesus name. I hold the blood of Jesus against you. The blood of Jesus has defeated you. The blood of Jesus has set me free. The blood of Jesus avails for me. I plead the blood of Jesus over my home, my life and my family. I protect them from your attacks. I walk in the freedom Jesus' death has brought me. Amen"
"[b]I[/b]"
Brother, I think there is more of an honest attempt here to get at the bottom of things, by and large, so take that sentiment as well, please.
"I bind ... you Satan"
"I plead the blood ..."
"I command .. etc. etc."
"I rebuke you ____"
This is also speaking as much in general as specific, but to draw it back to the question Robert raised... Do we consider without question [i]why[/i] we do the things we do? Do they have any real scriptural warrant even in association? And more importantly, are they necessary or just pragmatic? Just honest questioning and considering...
When it comes to these types of things, I just wonder at the reasoning behind them and the flip-side or the outcome ... Not to make more than it should out of it but just a thought to consider;
Act 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
Act 19:14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
Act 19:15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
Act 19:16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.
Act 19:17 And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
What comes to mind in this matter as well as the other usages of these common phraseologies is to look back through the scriptures directly at all the confrontations of either Satan or demons, anything of that realm in specific and recognize how and to whom it\they\him were addressed.
Does any of our manners of application have any similarities to how either the Lord Himself answered or the disciples?
Just as well, forgetting who now brought it to the fore, but Ephesians well spells out what our Armour is and it also came readily to my mind when this all first started.
What [i]need[/i] is there in these extras? What harm is there that is being overlooked because it may seem expedient?
Quote:
And THEY OVERCAME HIM BY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB, AND BY THE WORD OF THEIR TESTIMONY
[b]Rev 12:11 - they[/b]--emphatic in the Greek. "They" in particular. They and they alone. They were the persons who overcame.
[b]overcame[/b]-- (Rom_8:33-34, Rom_8:37; Rom_16:20).
[b]him[/b]-- (1Jo_2:14-15). It is the same victory (a peculiarly Johannean phrase) over Satan and the world which the Gospel of John describes in the life of Jesus, his Epistle in the life of each believer, and his Apocalypse in the life of the Church.
[b]by, &c[/b].--Greek (dia to haima; accusative, not genitive case, as English Version would require, compare Heb_9:12), [u]"on account of (on the ground of) the blood of the Lamb";[/u] "because of"; on account of and by virtue of its having been shed. Had that blood not been shed, Satan's accusations would have been unanswerable; as it is, that blood meets every charge. SCHOTTGEN mentions the Rabbinical tradition that Satan accuses men all days of the year, except the day of atonement. TITTMANN takes the Greek "dia," as it often means, out of regard to the blood of the Lamb; this was the impelling cause which induced them to undertake the contest for the sake of it; but the view given above is good Greek, and more in accordance with the general sense of Scripture.
[b]by the word of their testimony[/b]--Greek, [u]"on account of the word of their testimony."[/u] On the ground of their faithful testimony, even unto death, they are constituted victors. Their testimony evinced their victory over him by virtue of the blood of the Lamb. Hereby they confess themselves worshippers of the slain Lamb and overcome the beast, Satan's representative; an anticipation of Rev_15:2, "them that had gotten the victory over the beast" (compare Rev_13:15-16).
[b]unto[/b]--Greek, "achri," "even as far as." They carried their not-love of life as far as even unto death.
[i]Robert Jamieson, A.R. Fausset and David Brown Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible[/i]
Last thought. Where do we find the disciples having discourses with the powers of darkness? Even the Lord Himself (Who we are [u]not[/u]) from my recollection either answered the devil by way of scripture or by flat dismissal.
"Get behind Me"
"Come out of him"
"Be silent"
And the disciples? How again did they respond in these matters?
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| | 2006/6/29 9:59 | Profile |
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