| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: Pleading the blood? | | From Matthew Henry:
Quote:
Thus the expense of the sin-offering was brought lower than that of any other offering, to teach us that no man's poverty shall ever be a bar in the way of his pardon. The poorest of all may have atonement made for them, if it be not their own fault. Thus the poor are evangelized; and no man shall say that he had not wherewithal to bear the charges of a journey to heaven.
I don't think anyone is disputing the scripture here, but, there is a significant difference between the Old and the New Covenant, in that Jesus Christ was the Lamb of God who [i][b]takes away[/i][/b] the sin of the world.
Under the Old Covenant, sin was [i][b]covered[/i][/b] but [u]not[/u] removed as it is now.
Whereas this offering sufficed a poor person for certain limited sins as defined, he would also have benefitted every year from the Day of Atonement, which was vital to his works-based 'salvation'.
EDIT: the point of a sin-offering was to remind the man of his sinfulness and to enable him to keep a short account with God and his conscience. [end]
One might also note that the Lord of Glory gave His life for us all, for all our sinfulness and sins, and should there be any whose pretensions make them feel the need of a better sacrifice than the poor man's, how can they refuse the Son of God Himself? It is a great mercy that the poor man may also call on the Name of the Lord and be saved. There is no difference. This helps to highlight the [i]gift[/i] of faith and salvation in Christ, as well as to remove any obstacle which wealth or works might present in the mind of the sinner. |
|  2006/6/25 9:11 | | philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
A covenant is a UNION OF TWO PARTIES IN WHICH ALL ASSETS, TALENTS, DEBTS AND LIABILITIES ARE HELD MUTUALLY.
That would have to be a very specific kind of covenant and is certainly not the usual kind of covenant. Most ancient covenants had a major and a minor partner with the major partner sometimes imposing a covenant upon the minor.
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2006/6/26 2:07 | Profile | crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA
| | Pleading for an end ... | | Quote:
Quote:
Please forgive me if this has been brought out already, but the original sense (as best I know) of "pleading the blood" stems from a courtroom scene in which the sinner is brought to give account of his/her sins. When asked how do you plea (guilty, not guilty,), the person would respond, "I plead the blood."
Think this well speaks to the matter as did the rest of Roberts post, I recall this usage as well, note that it is defensive...
Still am finding this deeply grievous and highly unnecessary. That the whole of the Old Testament needs to be brought forth and the new wrangled out of it's context to buttress this idea that it has some sort of protection or is an arrow in the quiver ... Yes, of course all the types and shadows, yes the importance, it is the Lord who shed [i]His Blood[/i] but to stop right there and just dwell a minute .... Is there not something unimaginable in presuming upon the Lord Himself by way of this [i]"pleading"[/i] which as it is [b][u]used[/u][/b] is not really a "plea" of anything, it is an assumption and a taking of that which is not ours to take and [i]apply[/i] to whatever whim or fancy we wish. My God! What pray tell does this sound like to the ears of the unsaved?
Has it occurred to some of us that this precious blood, that ought not to have ever been shed ... That our Lord was [i][u]Crucified[/u][/i]...
Led to the slaughter...
[i]And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.[/i]
Mar 14:24
[i]After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, [u]in remembrance of me[/u].[/i] 1Co 11:25
The most indicting of all;
[b]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?[/b] Heb 10:29
It does equate to that, but little concern it seems having figured out a way around it with endless extrapolations that support in no way anything remotely scriptural or even warranted. the biggest question of all is ... Why? Why is it even presumed necessary? Not a single solitary disciple ever came close to such usage in scripture. I must pour out my grief here...
A part of that is due to our modern day assumptions and flippant reasonings, the carelessness and sloppy understanding of just Who Jesus Christ is. Again, this verse now so logged in my heart;
Act 19:17 [i]And this became known to all the residents of Ephesus, both Jews and Greeks. And fear fell upon them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was [u]extolled[/u][/i].
"Esteemed"
We have the Benny Hinn's of the world weaving all kinds of fables and formulas, magic cantations by way of the Lords shed blood... The ghastly T-Shirts mimicking the Budweiser tag-line [i]"This Bloods for you"[/i]
Where does it end? And to those supporting all this, do you really care that it has come to bringing reproach upon the Lord Himself? Does it seem as necessary now?
Oh, I am not as angry as this may sound, just deeply grieved. It is things like this that drove me out of our modern day Christendom and it's 'church'.
Where is the Lords honor ...
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Mike Balog
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| | 2006/6/26 10:19 | Profile | Nellie
Member
Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952
| | Re: | | It is only by the Blood of Jesus Christ that we are going to make it to Heaven.
The Bible says,But if we walk in the light as He is the Light, we have fellowship one with another, and the Blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John 1:7.
There can never be too much emphasise put on the Blood of Jesus, wheather we are pleading or claiming His Precious Blood.
God help us all to understand more about Jesus' Blood.
God Bless you today.
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| | 2006/6/26 10:22 | Profile | IRONMAN
Member
Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| | Re: Pleading for an end ... | | brethren
i think bro Mike summed it up here:
Quote:
It does equate to that, but little concern it seems having figured out a way around it with endless extrapolations that support in no way anything remotely scriptural or even warranted. the biggest question of all is ... Why? Why is it even presumed necessary? Not a single solitary disciple ever came close to such usage in scripture. I must pour out my grief here...
indeed there is no mention of any dicsiple or anyone else pleading the blood in any instance. it seems that whole practise stemmed from the mentioned courtroom scene. it seems to me there really is no basis from pleading the blood because the only instance in which the blood is spilled is for the remission of sins. of course we can't deny that this gives us access to the throne of God but it doesn't seem the blood can be applied to anything else but our sin.
Lord set us straight.AMEN.
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Farai Bamu
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| | 2006/6/26 11:19 | Profile | RobertW
Member
Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: Pleading for an end ... | | Quote:
The ghastly T-Shirts mimicking the Budweiser tag-line "This Bloods for you"
Yes. I recall even a Christian song using this line, perhaps in a different way. It was "This Blood" (I think) by Carmen. I felt soon after that that certain Christian music took a bad turn and profaned even the name of our Lord. I caught the usage of the concept of 'plea' and the blood in another hymn just last Saturday.
NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD
(1876 Robert Lowry)
What can wash away my sin?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
What can make me whole again?
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
Oh! precious is the flow
That makes me white as snow;
No other fount I know,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
[u]For my pardon, this I see,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
For my cleansing this my plea,[/u]
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
Nothing can for sin atone,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
Naught of good that I have done,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
This is all my hope and peace,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus;
This is all my righteousness,
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
Now by this Ill overcome
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
Now by this Ill reach my home
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
Glory! Glory! This I sing
Nothing but the blood of Jesus,
All my praise for this I bring
Nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Refrain
******
I don't think the intention of the writer was to convey the abuses we see today. I am just trying to search out the root of how this concept 'sprung up.' I agree with Mike and Ron B. that the blood is 'God-ward' and is not to be thought of as some sort of magical formula. [i]When I see the blood [u]I[/u] will pass over you..."[/i].
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Robert Wurtz II
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| | 2006/6/26 11:39 | Profile | murdog
Member
Joined: 2006/2/4
Posts: 352
Fort Frances, Ontario
| | Re: | | SI members,
Paul would have never plead the blood over his possessions, he didn't care about "stuff". As long as he had food and clothing he was content with that.
The disciples experienced much more physical harm (violence, stoning, death) and I am pretty sure they were walking in God's will. Why wasn't the blood keeping them safe and free from all problems.
These men were dead to self, they weren't concerned with their needs, their stuff or their comfort. We could take a lesson.
As for having God's protection around you, look at Job. "Have YOU not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has." God supplies the protection. Job never called it forth.
God knows when a sparrow hits the ground, surely you are more valuable than that!
Let us pray in accordance to the word.
Amen.
Murray
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Murray Beninger
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| | 2006/6/26 13:18 | Profile |
| | Re: There is power in the BLOOD | | Stever posts from the Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ:
Nothing but the Blood of Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!
Revelation, Chapter 1
5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD,
6. And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Revelation Chapter 5
7. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by THY BLOOD out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10. And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Revelation Chapter 7
14. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and MADE THEM WHITE in the BLOOD OF THE LAMB. 15. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Revelation Chapter 12
10. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11. And they overcame him by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Revelations Chapter 19
12. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13. And he was clothed with a vesture DIPPED IN BLOOD: and his name is called The Word of God.
14. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I pray that this will open eyes, and soften hearts, and open ears to the power of the blood of the Lamb!
God bless,
Stever :-D |
| | 2006/6/28 1:52 | | philologos
Member
Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
Nothing but the Blood of Jesus!!!!!!!!!!!
which means the substitionary and penal death of Christ in payment for the sins of the world is the only basis upon which God can pour out His life giving Spirit.
I sing these hymns all the time but I know they are referring to Calvary and what was accomplished there.
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2006/6/28 16:16 | Profile | brentw
Member
Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio
| | Re: Pleading the Blood? | | I still plead the BLOOD over my family....
I dont plead over my material things but family... the Blood does signify protection.
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Brent
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| | 2006/6/28 17:55 | Profile |
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