Poster | Thread | RobertW Member
Joined: 2004/2/12 Posts: 4636 St. Joseph, Missouri
| Re: flour is a sin offering! | | Quote:
Whatever the blood did the flour also did. The conclusion is IF the blood turned away Gods anger towards sin then the flour also would have turned away his anger from sin also.
This has a strong 'Gov't of God' feel to it. I say respectfully, that I think Finney misunderstood the atonement as we would know it. I am not saying that many of his teachings are not profitable, but his position on atonement I have to renounce when it departs from the scriptures.
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and [u]without shedding of blood is no remission.[/u] (Hebrews 9:22)
I wish to share this quote from Spurgeon:
"This great fact, I say, is stamped on nature; it is an essential law of God's moral government, it is one of the fundamental principles which can neither be shaken nor denied. Never can there be any exception to it; it stands the same in every place throughout all ages"Without shedding of blood there is no remission." It was so with the Jews; they had no remission without the shedding of blood. [u]Some things under the Jewish law might be cleansed by water or by fire, but in no case where absolute sin was concerned was there ever purification without blood[/u]teaching this doctrine, that blood, and blood alone, must be applied for the remission of sin. Indeed the very heathen seem to have an inkling of this fact. Do not I see their knives gory with the blood of victims? Have I not heard horrid tales of human immolations, of holocausts, of sacrifices; and what mean these, but that there lies deep in the human breast, deep as the very existence of man, this truth,"that without shedding of blood there is no remission." And I assert once more, that even in the hearts and consciences of my hearers there is something which will never let them believe in remission apart from a shedding of blood. This is the grand truth of Christianity, and it is a truth which I will endeavour now to fix upon your memory; and may God by his grace bless it to your souls. "Without shedding of blood is no remission."" (C.H. Spurgeon)
_________________ Robert Wurtz II
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| 2006/6/23 9:39 | Profile | RobertW Member
Joined: 2004/2/12 Posts: 4636 St. Joseph, Missouri
| Re: flour is a sin offering! | | For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. (Hebrews 10:4)
Quote:
The conclusion is IF the blood turned away Gods anger towards sin then the flour also would have turned away his anger fr
This is impossible. This is the way of Cain. Hebrews 10:4 gives us insight into all of the offerings with the simple statement, [i]For it is [u]not possible[/u] that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.[/i] These offerings were only temporal pictures of the true Sin Offering.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had [u]no pleasure.[/u](Hebrews 10:6)
These things were 'pictures' and had no value to turn away God's wrath whatsoever. It was because of the blood of Christ slain from before the foundation of the world that made anyones sins forgivable. It is the only way God was just in being the justifier of the ungodly.
... by which will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Every priest indeed stands day by day serving and often offering the same sacrifices, [u]which can never take away sins,[/u] but he, when he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;
_________________ Robert Wurtz II
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| 2006/6/23 10:18 | Profile | murdog Member
Joined: 2006/2/4 Posts: 352 Fort Frances, Ontario
| Re: | | SI members,
I have always felt that pleading the blood was an invention of man. Maybe a well intentioned invention, but an invention nonetheless. When Jesus taught his disciples to pray he never directed them to plead his blood. Paul doesn't plead the blood in his letters.
The blood is everything in regards to the remission of sin. I just don't think it needs to be used to protect our belongings,etc.
Murray _________________ Murray Beninger
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| 2006/6/23 10:19 | Profile | Logic Member
Joined: 2005/7/17 Posts: 1791
| Re: flour is a sin offering! | | freecd wrote: Quote:
The conclusion is IF the blood turned away Gods anger towards sin then the flour also would have turned away his anger from sin also.
What is your conclusion to this?
[b]Hebrews 10:4-12[/b] [color=990000]For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. [b]:5[/b] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: [b]:6[/b] In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. [b]:7 [/b] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [b]:8 [/b] Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; [b]:9 [/b] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. [b]:10[/b] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [b]:11[/b] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [b]:12[/b] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;[/color]
It was not the blood of bulls and goats that God looked at, but the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.[b]Rev. 13:8[/b]
The blood of bulls and goats were for the children of Israel to see the full extent of the effect that sin has.
It was to show the children of Israel that there must be a better sacrifice that will take away sin once and for all and not need a sacrifice every year.
They knew that their sacrificees can never take away sins: it was only a reminder for them.
So what is your point with the flour? |
| 2006/6/23 10:32 | Profile | RobertW Member
Joined: 2004/2/12 Posts: 4636 St. Joseph, Missouri
| Re: What is your plea? I 'plead' the blood. | | Quote:
The blood is everything in regards to the remission of sin. I just don't think it needs to be used to protect our belongings,etc.
Please forgive me if this has been brought out already, but the original sense (as best I know) of "pleading the blood" stems from a courtroom scene in which the sinner is brought to give account of his/her sins. When asked how do you plea (guilty, not guilty,), the person would respond, "I plead the blood."
There have been a couple of Christian tunes to this effect, one of which was Ray Boltz's "One drop of blood." Error begets error. The song has a nice tune to it, but it misses the point all together. "One drop of blood" did NOT defeat the enemy. The life of Christ poured out (for the life of the flesh is in the blood) is what turned away God's wrath. The song would lead a person to believe that a blood sample from a pin prick device would have saved a person. This is nonsense.
Another Lyric comes to mind from "THE BLOOD OF CALVARY":
When the harvest has been gathered All my work is done When the last mile's been traveled And I've sung my final song [u]If I'm called to give an answer At heaven's judgment seat Then let the blood of Calvary speak for me.[/u]
The concept is rooted in the fact that the blood of Christ 'speaketh' better things than that of Abel. And since the blood 'speaketh' (as it were) then "I plead the blood."
The problem is that these types of illustrations can be taken too far and pretty soon the original meaning is gone and a new doctrine has developed. Lots of false or questionable 'doctrines' get started this way.
_________________ Robert Wurtz II
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| 2006/6/23 10:59 | Profile | Logic Member
Joined: 2005/7/17 Posts: 1791
| Re: | | plead has three Meanings:
[b]#1:[/b] appeal or request earnestly This is suplication, petition, and intercession.
There is no need to plead the blood here for the saint because God already sees it. There is no need to plead the blood for the unsaved, because they do not have it.
[b]#2:[/b] offer as an excuse or plea [b]#3:[/b] enter a plea, as in courts of law
These two meanings for the word plead that one would give with the blood are of no use because the blood is only a cleansing agent, if you will, and a payment for a price or a debt.
If you took a shower, would you need to plead the soap? No, you would show the cleanness. If you had a debt that was already paid, would you need to plead your payment? No, you would show the account.
We do not need to plead the blood be cause it is the blood of the Judge to whom we are pleading to.
If we were pleading to any other, like the devil, I might find a reason to plead the blood because of his unawareness of it.
Pleading the Blood for your body, your house, your car, your finances, etc. These are not to be covered by the blood, but only your soul is to be.
Pleading the Blood for protection is only protection from Gods' wrath.
Let's only do what we see the Apostles do and not add anything to it. |
| 2006/6/23 11:32 | Profile | philologos Member
Joined: 2003/7/18 Posts: 6566 Reading, UK
| Re: flour is a sin offering! | | Quote:
It appears that you can not read.
Is this the spirit in which you intend to pursue this conversation? If so, it is going to be rather one sided. _________________ Ron Bailey
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| 2006/6/24 1:39 | Profile |
| Re: The Blood | | Stever posts:
Every time in every church before we take the Holy Communion, we hear the pastor reading a passage from 1 Corinthians 11:24-25: "24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me. 25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remem-brance of Me."
When we read our Bible carefully (BOTH THE OLD & NEW TESTAMENT) we notice that since the fall of mankind, God initiated covenants with man. He made covenants with Noah (Genesis 6:18), with Abraham (Genesis 15:18, 17:2), with David (2 Samuel 23:5), with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31-34). The last and yet the most powerful one is the New Covenant or an everlasting covenant (Isaiah 55:3, 1 Corinthians 11:25).
In its simplest definition, a "covenant" is an agreement between two parties. We seldom use the word "covenant" today, and only in regards to the marriage covenant, where it is lightly regarded and it's true meaning not even understood.
In present society, THE WORD "COVENANT" IS A WORD THAT HAS LOST IT'S MEANING AND SIGNIFICANCE. In Old Testament and Biblical times, the word covenant involved a promise, commitment, faithfulness and LOYALTY EVEN UNTO DEATH. A covenant is a UNION OF TWO PARTIES IN WHICH ALL ASSETS, TALENTS, DEBTS AND LIABILITIES ARE HELD MUTUALLY.
What is the definition of a covenant?
In English: Mutual understanding between two or more parties each binding himself to fulfill specified obligations; a legal contract; a binding agreement; a written agree-ment.
Also means the conditional promises made to humanity by God, as revealed in Scripture.
In the Old Testament, The Hebrew Word BERIYTH is used 264 times. - Beriyth: implies the thought of cutting a covenant. The word is also defined as a covenant, pact or compact. These covenants are made between men, or between God or men (Jeremiah 34:18). [The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed]
In the New Testament the Greek word Diatheke is used 23 times.
1. Diatheke: a disposition, arrangement, testament or will. This word signifies an UNEQUAL COVENANT, WHERE ONE DOES ALL THE GIVING AND THE OTHER DOES ALL THE TAKING.
2. Suntithemai: To put together, place together, make an arrangement. The animals were placed in a specific arrangement, having been cut down the backbone and the middle of the head, cutting the animal in two.
Genesis 15:7-18 Then He said to him, I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it. And he said, Lord GOD, how shall I know that I will inherit it? So He said to him, Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away. Now when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and behold, horror and great darkness fell upon him. Then He said to Abram: Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions.Now as for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete. And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying: To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates -.
In this covenant above, we see that God initiated the first Blood Sacrifice Covenant with Abraham. In the modern day we hold a covenant with another person by his signature on a piece of paper which the person signs in front of a legal notary or a higher authority or by his word.
Since God is the highest authority, He cannot take an oath to another supreme authority. He can only guarantee His promises by His own word and by shedding blood to seal His covenant. In the ancient Hebrew or Hittite covenant the inferior party would walk between the bleeding pieces of cut animals taking an oath of loyalty to his superior partner. God established a covenant with Abraham in the terms that Abraham could understand, in accordance with the Hebrew covenant ritual.
In the Bible, we see in the Old and New Testaments, the Jewish ritual of making a covenant. There are 9 steps or conditions which where both parties must fulfill.
OLD TESTAMENT 1. Take Off Coat or Robe Both parties will take off their robes to exchange. This means Im giving you all of myself. I pledge to you my life and whatever I have.
A robe usually represents the status of a person. God does not have a physical robe therefore He offers all of Himself unto Abraham. He said, ...I am your shield, your exceedingly great reward (Genesis 15:1). This means everything, whatever God has including His holiness and His righteousness.
2. Take Off Belt A belt is used to hold the armour together. It means - Im giving you all my strength, support, protection, and ability to fight. Your battle will my battle. Ill fight for you, Ill defend and protect you. And youll do the same for me.
In this case we know the lesser party will benefit from the stronger party. So with Abraham since God doesnt have a physical belt, God promised Abraham, I will curse him who curses you, (Genesis 12:3) and I am your shield (Genesis15:1). In other words whoever comes against you comes against Me (God Himself).
3. Cut The Covenant God selected the animals and instructed Abraham to cut them into halves and place them opposite one another. In this covenant, both covenant parties had to walk between the bloody halves of the animals with their backs to each other. After reaching the other end they will turn around, face each other and walk through the animals to where they started.
In doing this they are saying firstly, We are dying to ourselves, giving up all our rights to the other party and beginning a new walk with the new covenant partner unto death. Secondly they are saying, May God do so unto me (like the animals) if I try to break the covenant.
Blood is very important to seal a covenant. There is life in the blood. Therefore sacrifice is life for life. To seal the covenant with blood means they hold the covenant until death. If one breaks the covenant let death come unto him.
When God made a covenant with Abraham we see in Genesis 15:12 that Abraham fell into deep sleep. And Genesis 15:17 says, Behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. It wasnt Abraham who walked through the bleeding pieces of sacrifical animal but it was God Himself.
In other words God was saying to Abraham, "I am making the covenant, doing all of the work, and you are a recipient of this covenant, with no responsibilities on your part".
The Lord was the Initiator of the covenant and He put Abraham to sleep. God did all of the work in this Covenant, not requiring anything from Abraham to establish the covenant. This dramatic act preshadows God's precious gift, Jesus, who condescended to die on a degrading cross for all mankind,thus doing all of the work for us to be saved.
We can see here that God:
A. Initiates the covenant B. Gives the requirement C. Administrates the outcome D. Himself is a Guarantor
4. Mix Blood Both parties will cut their palms and bring them together to mix the blood as they swear allegiance to each other. This means their lives are intermingling to become one thus putting off their old natures and putting the nature of the blood covenant partner.
With Abraham God said in Genesis 17:10, This is My covenant which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male child among you shall be circumcised. Genesis 17:12 He who is eight days old among you shall be circumcised, every male child in your generations, he who is born in your house or brought with money from any stranger who is not your descendant.
Circumcision here is a sign of man entering covenant with God.
5. Exchange Names Both parties will take each others last name. In Hebrew God is called YHWH. He took the H and He put it in Abram and Sarais names. So Abram became Abraham and Sarai became Sarah. God now becomes known as the God of Abraham.
6. Make a Scar Both parties rub their blood together, they make a scar as a permanent testimony to the covenant. This is one of the reasons why God asked every male Hebrew to be circumcised so that there is a mark on their bodies (Genesis 17:10-14). The seal of circumcision of the Abrahamic covenant is fulfilled in the New Covenant circumcision of the heart (Romans 2:24-29).
7. Covenant Terms Both parties will stand before witnesses and give the terms of covenant. All my wealth, assets, posessions are yours. At the same time they also exchange li-abilities so when one faces a financial problem, hell say, I will use our money to settle it.
We see that the weaker party will benefit from the stronger party. With Abraham, God said that through Abrahams seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed (Genesis 12:3 and 17:16). We know very well that all good things on this earth come from God. Abraham not only became a channel of blessing but more than that he is called the friend of God (James 2:23).
8. Eat Covenant Meal After doing all the above they close the covenant with a meal. Bread and wine are served.
9. Plant A Memorial Both parties will plant a tree sprinkled with the blood of the animal as a memorial to the covenant. All their children are included in the covenant. Later when their children come to an age of understanding about the covenant, they can choose to stay in it or reject it. Abraham understood very well the meaning of the cove-nant he made with God. Therefore he knew God had the right to ask for Isaac as a burnt offering. By his willingness to sacrifice Isaac he showed that he was prepared to fulfill covenant terms. Abraham chose to obey God where later God the Father fulfilled His part of the covenant by sending His only begotten Son, Jesus, as a sacrificial offering for all human race.
From the Abrahamic Covenant and the word covenant in Greek, diatheke which means an unequal covenant we know very well that we as humans have nothing to give to God - in fact we are His creation and His possession. On the other hand, God is a supreme Being, the self sufficient, self existent One, the Eternal Being, the Almighty, the Creator. In other words God gives all that He has while we give Him nothing. Man can gain all the positive benefits from God. What can man give to God and what can God gain from men - the sin, the transgression, the rebellion, the self centeredness, the pride and the arrogance of the highest order, the wickedness, the diseases - and all the negative things you can think of.
Who in the right mind would want to enter into an agreement or covenant where he gets all the dirt - no one !!! Usually people enter into a covenant because they can benefit from it. The stronger party will enjoy the benefit of having the weaker partys manpower and the weaker party will get protection or finance. Example, the mafia - you work for me, you do all the dirty work and in return I protect you and your family.
I thank God, He is who He is. We all know He is powerful, He is awesome, He is wonderful, He is the prince of peace, He is our healer, He is our banner, He is our deliverer, He is our provider, He is our stronghold, He is our refuge, He is our everything. He can be and is everything for us because He is a God of love who gave Himself to us by giving His only begotten Son to us. It is His nature and it is His heart to love. It is His nature and it is His heart to give. Therefore it is His nature and it is His heart to initiate covenants with man. The covenants are the greatest manifestation of Gods love, grace and mercy.
In order for man to be in covenant relationship with God, He must reveal the covenant to man openly declaring the promises and terms where the heavens, the earth and all creation can witness it. All this was fulfilled in the New Testament by God sacrificing His only Son, Jesus Christ.
THE NEW TESTAMENT
1. Exchange Robe Isaiah 61:10 For He (Jesus) has clothed me with the garments of salvation. He (Jesus) has covered me with the robe of righteousness.
Jesus, who is the Son of God, fully righteous, takes on all our unrighteousness. We can take on His robe of righteousness.
Isaiah 64:6a But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
2. Exchange Belt We know very well we cannot protect God but God can protect us and He took on our weaknesses.
Colossians 2:9-10 "9. For in Him dwells all the fullnes of the Godhead bodily 10. and you are complete in Him who is the head of all principality and power.
Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Isaiah 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted.
3. Cut Covenant
Jesus gives His own body as the sacrifice broken for us. Isaiah 52:14 His appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and His form marred beyond human likenenss.
God knows that animals are corruptible, only He and His Son, Jesus, are incorruptible, eternal. God has to sacrifice Jesus, the eternal Being, so we all can have eternal life. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
4. Mix Blood Jesus who is fully the Son of God must come to earth as the Son of Man so that His blood could be shed for mankind. When we receive Jesus as our Saviour, we are one with Him. We know that He is holy, righteous and perfect. Thus, in Jesus we can put off our old nature and put on the new nature of Jesus.
Ephesians 4:22-24 22 That you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
5. Exchange Names
Jesus who is fully Son of God took the name Son of Man. John 3:13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. We take on His name.
Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disci-ples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
6. Make a Scar
Jesus bears the scar in His hands, the scars of crucifixion. When Jesus had risen, Jesus showed Thomas His scarred hands. John 20:25 & 27 25 Thomas declared, unless I see the nail marks in His His hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.27 He said to Thomas, Put your finger here, see My hands. Reach out your hands and put it into My side. Stop doubting and believe.
God doesnt require us to be circumcised as the Jews as it was done by Jesus.
Colossians 2:11 & 14 11 In Him you were also circumcised, with the circum-cision made without your hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ. 14 having wiped out the hand writing requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
7. Terms of Covenant John 1:11-13 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:13 who were born, not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God Man must willingly receive what he has been freely given and respond to what God has done by re-pentance, faith and obedience.
8. Eat Covenant Meal
In the Old Testament, God did not sit with Abraham and eat the covenant meal, but in the New Testament, Jesus instituted the Lords Supper as the New Covenant. 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 "23. For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24. and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me. 25. In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remem-brance of Me. 26. For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lords death till He comes. Jesus was not only the blood sacrifice, He was also the covenant meal. John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world. Man must acccept by faith what Christ did for him and live by obedience to Him.
John 6:54 & 56 54 Whoever eats of My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up the last day.
56 He who eats My flesh, and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in Him. Eating and drinking is to be understood spiritually. The expression is used figuratively of partaking of the benefits of the death of Christ. To believe in Christ is to partake of Christ.
9. Plant A Memorial
In the Old Testament, God and Abraham didnt plant a tree as a memorial to the covenant. God fulfilled this in the New Covenant when Jesus was crucified on the cross and His blood was poured out. The cross is the memorial tree of the New Covenant. Every time we and our de-scendants look at the cross we are all reminded of Gods covenant.
1 Peter 2:24 Who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteous-ness - by whose stripes you were healed.
John 19:17-18 17 And He, bearing His cross, went out to a place called the Place of a Skull, which is called in Hebrew, Golgotha, 18 where they crucified Him, and two others with Him, one on either side, and Jesus in the center. After reading about The Blood Covenant, we see the significance of the shedding of blood by Jesus. We also see how much God honors His covenant which He initiated. We see in the Old Testament and the culture of Jews that they believed if one party breaks the covenant, let death come upon him (just like the cut animals). Because Jesus fulfilled Gods promise by shedding His blood, Jesus boldly exlaimed, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. (John 14:6).
Also, we must never forget that- "there is no remission without the shedding of blood" - Hebrews 9:22
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God bless,
Stever :-D |
| 2006/6/25 1:34 | |
| Re: | | Someone posted (maybe Freecd):
Quote: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whatever the blood did the flour also did. The conclusion is IF the blood turned away Gods anger towards sin then the flour also would have turned away his anger from sin also. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stever responds:
This is incorrect. Sin Sacrifice: Fine Flour, bull, lamb, goat, dove or pigeon
Trespass offering: Ram
Both of these sacrifices were mandatory if you were a Jew. The rest were voluntary.
The Sacrifices consisted of:
Mandatory: 1) The Sin Sacrifice- for our sin nature, inherited from Adam 2) The Trespass Offering- for any unknown sin that we might have committed, as well as specific sin that we were aware of.
Voluntary- a "Sweet Savor to the Lord":
3) The Burnt Offering 4) The Meat (Meal) Offering 5) The Peace Offering
The flour was never offered by itself, but always part of an offering. The Sin offering consisted of Meal, along with a bull, lamb, goat, dove or a pigeon.
The Burnt offering often included the meal offering along with it. The meal (meat) offering was never offered by itself.
God bless,
Stever :-D |
| 2006/6/25 3:41 | |
| God accepted fine flour for a sin offering | | This is from Matthew Henry Complete Commentary.
Please use ANY Commentary you wish.
Law of the Sin-Offering. B. C. 1490.
1 And if a soul sin, and hear the voice of swearing, and is a witness, whether he hath seen or known of it; if he do not utter it, then he shall bear his iniquity. 2 Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty. 3 Or if he touch the uncleanness of man, whatsoever uncleanness it be that a man shall be defiled withal, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty. 4 Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these. 5 And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing: 6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin.
I. The offences here supposed are, 1. A man's concealing the truth when he was sworn as a witness to speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Judges among the Jews had power to adjure not only the witnesses, as with us, but the person suspected (contrary to a rule of our law, that no man is bound to accuse himself), as appears by the high priest adjuring our Saviour, who thereupon answered, though before he stood silent, Matthew 26:63,64. Now (Leviticus 5:1), If a soul sin (that is, a person, for the soul is the man), if he hear the voice of swearing (that is, if he be adjured to testify what he knows, by an oath of the Lord upon him, 1 Kings 8:31), if in such a case, for fear of offending one that either has been his friend or may be his enemy, he refuses to give evidence, or gives it but in part, he shall bear his iniquity. And that is a heavy burden, which, if some course be not taken to get it removed, will sink a man to the lowest hell. He that heareth cursing (that is, that is thus adjured) and betrayeth it not (that is, stifles his evidence, and does not utter it), he is a partner with the sinner, and hateth his own soul; see Proverbs 29:24. Let all that are called out at any time to bear testimony think of this law, and be free and open in their evidence, and take heed of prevaricating. An oath of the Lord is a sacred thing, and not to be dallied with. 2. A man's touching any thing that was ceremonially unclean, Leviticus 5:2,3. If a man, polluted by such touch, came into the sanctuary inconsiderately, or if he neglected to wash himself according to the law, then he was to look upon himself as under guilt, and must bring his offering. Though his touching the unclean thing contracted only a ceremonial defilement, yet his neglect to wash himself according to the law was such an instance either of carelessness or contempt as contracted a moral guilt. If at first it be hidden from him, yet when he knows it he shall be guilty. Note, As soon as ever God by his Spirit convinces our consciences of any sin or duty we must immediately set in with the conviction, and prosecute it, as those that are not ashamed to own our former mistake. 3. Rash swearing. If a man binds himself by an oath that he will do or not do such a thing, and the performance of his oath afterwards proves either unlawful or impracticable, by which he is discharged from the obligation, yet he must bring an offering to atone for his fully in swearing so rashly, as David that he would kill Nabal. And then it was that he must say before the angel that it was an error, Ecclesiastes 5:6. He shall be guilty in one of these (Leviticus 5:4), guilty if he do not perform his oath, and yet, if the matter of it were evil, guilty if he do. Such wretched dilemmas as these do some men bring themselves into by their own rashness and folly; go which way they will their consciences are wounded, sin stares them in the face, so sadly are they snared in the words of their mouth. A more sad dilemma this is than that of the lepers, "If we sit still, we die; if we stir, we die." Wisdom and watchfulness beforehand would prevent these straits.
II. Now in these cases, 1. The offender must confess his sin and bring his offering (Leviticus 5:5,6); and the offering was not accepted unless it was accompanied with a penitential confession and a humble prayer for pardon. Observe, The confession must be particular, that he hath sinned in that thing; such was David's confession (Psalms 51:4), I have done this evil; and Achan's (Joshua 7:20), Thus and thus have I done. Deceit lies in generals; many will own in general they have sinned, for that all must own, so that it is not any particular reproach to them; but that they have sinned in this thing they stand too much upon their honour to acknowledge: but the way to be well assured of pardon, and to be well armed against sin for the future, is to be particular in our penitent confessions. 2. The priest must make atonement for him. As the atonement was not accepted without his repentance, so his repentance would not justify him without the atonement. Thus, in our reconciliation to God, Christ's part and ours are both needful.
7 And if he be not able to bring a lamb, then he shall bring for his trespass, which he hath committed, two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, unto the LORD; one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering. 8 And he shall bring them unto the priest, who shall offer that which is for the sin offering first, and wring off his head from his neck, but shall not divide it asunder: 9 And he shall sprinkle of the blood of the sin offering upon the side of the altar; and the rest of the blood shall be wrung out at the bottom of the altar: it is a sin offering. 10 And he shall offer the second for a burnt offering, according to the manner: and the priest shall make an atonement for him for his sin which he hath sinned, and it shall be forgiven him. 11 But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering. 12 Then shall he bring it to the priest, and the priest shall take his handful of it, even a memorial thereof, and burn it on the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: it is a sin offering. 13 And the priest shall make an atonement for him as touching his sin that he hath sinned in one of these, and it shall be forgiven him: and the remnant shall be the priest's, as a meat offering.
Provision is here made for the poor of God's people, and the pacifying of their consciences under the sense of guilt. Those that were not able to bring a lamb might bring for a sin-offering a pair of turtle-doves or two young pigeons; nay, if any were so extremely poor that they were not able to procure these so often as they would have occasion, they might bring a pottle of fine flour, and this should be accepted. Thus the expense of the sin-offering was brought lower than that of any other offering, to teach us that no man's poverty shall ever be a bar in the way of his pardon. The poorest of all may have atonement made for them, if it be not their own fault. Thus the poor are evangelized; and no man shall say that he had not wherewithal to bear the charges of a journey to heaven. Now,
I. If the sinner brought two doves, one was to be offered for a sin-offering and the other for a burnt-offering, Leviticus 5:7. Observe, 1. Before he offered the burnt-offering, which was for the honour and praise of God, he must offer the sin-offering, to make atonement. We must first see to it that our peace be made with God, and then we may expect that our services for his glory will be accepted. The sin-offering must make way for the burnt-offering. 2. After the sin-offering, which made atonement, came the burnt-offering, as an acknowledgment of the great mercy of God in appointing and accepting the atonement.
II. If he brought fine flour, a handful of it was to be offered, but without either oil or frankincense (Leviticus 5:11), not only because this would make it too costly for the poor, for whose comfort this sacrifice was appointed, but because it was a sin-offering, and therefore, to show the loathsomeness of the sin for which it was offered, it must not be made grateful either to the taste by oil or to the smell by frankincense. The unsavouriness of the offering was to intimate that the sinner must never relish his sin again as he had done. God by these sacrifices did speak, 1. Comfort to those that had offended, that they might not despair, nor pine away in their iniquity; but, peace being thus made for them with God, they might have peace in him. 2. Caution likewise not to offend any more, remembering what an expensive troublesome thing it was to make atonement. |
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