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Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | Steve, all is good with your post. Blood is God's life, liquid life and it flows through all of His creation, but flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God.
The only thing is, lets not cheapen the power in the Blood and what it did for us at the Cross. Pleading the blood is like name it and claim it and putting icing on it by using the precious blood of Christ to get what we want. God knows what we need before we even ask. Don't make Him sick by using a cheap parlor trick. Lets put the power in the Blood in its proper context, where it was shed for our salvation and life in Christ the Person, The Person is our salvation and new life.
If we carry this to its ultimate, when we were crucified with Christ our blood must have been mingled with His. Well I guess you can see where that would lead. Not where God would want the Blood of His Precious Son to be used.
In Christ: Phillip
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Phillip
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 2006/6/23 4:21 | Profile |
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
Of what "value" did applying the actual blood of sacrificed animals to the right earlobe, the right big finger,and the right big toe have here? Of what value did the anointing of Oil over the Priests head have here?
These were all commands of God.
They were indeed, and 'pleading the blood' isn't.
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Ron Bailey
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| 2006/6/23 6:08 | Profile |
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: Christ's life poured out in death ie the blood of the cross was in order to | | Quote:
Christ's life poured out in death ie the blood of the cross was in order to turn away God's anger??
Can you back this statement up with scripture?
Does John 3:16 teach this?
It is the meaning of the word 'propitiation'. Propitiation is the price paid to pay to for the offence and to make reconciliation possible. Quote:
And say ye moreover, Behold, thy servant Jacob is behind us. For he said, I will [u]appease[/u] him with the present that goeth before me, and afterward I will see his face; peradventure he will accept of me.
(Gen 32:20 KJVS)
The word translated here is 'kaphar' often translated 'to atone' in the KJV. This passage is a wonderful illustration of propitiation making reconciliation possible and is 2nd earliest use of the term in the scriptures.
As regards John 3:16 that verse is a simple statement of fact and purpose not an explanation as to how God effected the reconciliation. Paul takes up the theme of 'propitiation' in Romans...Quote:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(Rom 3:25 KJVS)
God has set forth Christ as the price paid to remove the offence and this and this alone is the reason that God can be both 'just' and the 'justifier'.
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Ron Bailey
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| 2006/6/23 6:20 | Profile |
philologos
Member
Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
Today, in 2006 do we all have the blood and oil applied in our own lives as born again Christians?
It was the office of Moses (and later the Hight Priest) to apply the blood and the oil. As Wesley wrote Quote:
Spirit of faith, come down,
reveal the things of God,
and make to us the Godhead known,
and witness with the blood.
'Tis thine the blood to apply
and give us eyes to see,
who did for every sinner die
hath surely died for me.
In this New Covenant it is the Mediator and High Priest who must apply the blood, not us.
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Ron Bailey
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| 2006/6/23 6:26 | Profile |
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
I believe there is basis in some aspect in Revelation 12:11, "For the Accuser of our brothers is cast down .. and they overcame Him because of the Blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony, and because they loved not their soul life even unto death."
That is, the Blood speaks to the accuser. He accuses, we testify to the Blood, The Spirit witnesses to the Blood, and the accuser is silenced.
We have an Advocate who pleads our cause, Jesus Christ the Righteous and he is the propitiation... It is because of the death of Christ as the God-given and God-received propitiation that Satan can no longer exercise authority over the saints. The word of their testimony is not that they 'face' Satan in this overcoming life but that their confidence is in what God has already done in Christ.
I defeat Satan by 'resisting him' not by 'pleading the blood'. It is possible to resist him because of what Christ has done on the cross in which God's righteous demands were satisfied and Satan's stranglehold on the human race was broken.
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Ron Bailey
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| 2006/6/23 6:33 | Profile |
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: Forgiveness without blood! | | Quote:
God allowed poor people under the law to bring fine flour as a sin offering. This flour from Gods point of view accomplished as much as a blood sacrifice from a person who had more money.
Whatever the blood did the flour also did.
The conclusion is IF the blood turned away Gods anger towards sin then the flour also would have turned away his anger from sin also.
You are mixing up the offerings. Flour was never a sin offering, it was part of the meal offerings and as such was a 'sweet savour' offering to God; the sin offering and the trespass offerings were not 'sweet savour' offerings'. The 'meal offering' has no reference to 'sin'.
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Ron Bailey
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| 2006/6/23 6:39 | Profile |
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Sorry, this is the sixth in a row, but I have been away over the weekend and catching up with other things at home...
Quote:
We are in prison, in bondage to this condition and a price must be paid to redeem us from it. The blood is not a payment to God and certainly not to the devil. It is paid to us as that which we need to free us from the chains of our alienation.
the blood is paid 'to us'... this is crazy. The death of Christ was the payment of a debt, what did God ever owe me? The propitiation is a price paid... to whom.... me? of course not.
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Ron Bailey
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| 2006/6/23 6:44 | Profile |
| | Re: Pleading the blood? | | I said (p5)
Quote:
I believe the shedding of His blood, both before and after His death are symbolic.
This sentence has been batting round in my head since I wrote it. I think I mean they are [u]also symbolic[/u], rather than [i]only[/i] 'symbolic'.
It has dawned on me that while He was still alive, shedding blood which contained HIS LIFE, He was a 'living sacrifice'.
He was still alive when He cried 'It is finished'.
When He gave up the ghost, it was the confirmation of that 'finish'. That blood which had not flowed until His side was pierced [i]after[/i] His death, [i]must be[/i] part of the complete offering for sin which was acceptable to the Father, as it speaks of Christ's life completely laid down.
I feel there is other significance in the water which flowed from His side, with the blood,(as well as that from His head, hands and feet, which speak of the truth in John 13), but probably these are off topic for this thread. |
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| 2006/6/23 8:04 | |
| | flour is a sin offering! | | Philologos
I am NOT mixing up the offerings. It appears that you can not read. Look again at this verse.
Leviticus 5:11; "But if his means are insufficient for two turtledoves or two young pigeons, then for his offering for that which he has sinned, he shall bring the tenth of an ephah of fine flour for a SIN offering; he shall not put oil on it or place incense on it, for it is a SIN offering." NASB
Under the law, fine flour WAS accepted by God for a SIN offering.
I stand by my statement.
This flour from Gods point of view accomplished as much as a blood sacrifice from a person who had more money.
Whatever the blood did the flour also did.
The conclusion is IF the blood turned away Gods anger towards sin then the flour also would have turned away his anger from sin also.
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| 2006/6/23 8:20 | |
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: flour is a sin offering! | | Quote:
I am NOT mixing up the offerings. It appears that you can not read. Look again at this verse.
:-?
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Robert Wurtz II
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| 2006/6/23 9:30 | Profile |
