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Ron Bailey

Hi Stever,

I do [u]know[/u] that the Bible usually refers to 'seed' in connection with men. And, I do [u]know[/u] that the reference in Gensis 3:15, so early in scripture, establishes as FACT that [u]women do have 'seed'[/u], and, that this is the [i]only[/i] [u]mention[/u] of women's seed, in scripture. I also accept this was a reference [i]specifically[/i] to Christ…. That is, that the Child whom Mary bore, was the Seed whom God had promised would bruise the serpent’s head. I’m sure you know there were other promised seeds, who fulfilled other roles.

Up till now you have stated categorically that ‘WOMEN DO NOT HAVE SEED!’ - while at the same time trying to establish the importance of retaining the more faithful translation 'Seed' (of the woman - Eve) for Gen 3:15. So far, it has sounded as if you are contradicting yourself - or that you don't read your own posts. :-o While you are holding out for an acknowledgement from me, that ‘seed’ is usually called in connection with men, I would also like you to concede that there is a sense in which it is the offspring (singular) who is the ‘seed’, in a separate use of the same word. In this respect, Eve’s ‘seed’ (Seed) becomes Christ, although we know she did not bear Him. This is what I mean here:

You said:

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Ron Bailey

philologos,

Thank you for hearing my request for an exposition on 'seed'. :-)


Stever,

There was something I meant to say, which picks up on points from two of my earlier posts.

I said:

There is spiritual seed and there is physical seed. God can manipulate the seed any way He wants. The seed if oak tree, the seed of Mary being Christ. Both Spirit and Physical are in God, Proof being creation of Adam and out of Adam, Eve. Adam had seed to plant just like Eve had seed to receive from the planter. When seed conceives from the planter and the receiver, seed is born of a woman a living thing, if you will a reproduction of the planter and receiver.

Mary the receiver and God being the planter by the Holy Spirit, from this conception Christ was born a reproduction of Man from Mary and All God from the Father. Thus Jesus Christ all man and all God. The only difference in this Man was no seed of Adam. Thus back to the seed of Mary being able to reproduce perfect seeds that have no sin, or else the man part of Jesus Chris would carry the fallen seed of man, which Jesus was not. Thus the statement sin was passed to all man by Adam is correct. 1 Corinthians 15:47-49 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Thus the Seed of Mary or the Seed of a woman is Incorruptable seed or the Incorruptable seed of the Father could not produced the image of the heavenly. This does not make woman heavenly, for she still dies out of or in Christ. But Her seed is Incorruptable, it is the seed of Adam that carries the poison of sin and death of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. "He Ate", and physically and spiritually Adam took on physical and spiritual corruption. 1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

After "he ate", Adam's seed was corrupted, Eves was not, or Christ could not have been perfect man and Perfect God at the same time born of a woman.

"yet her desire will be for her husband"

In Christ: Phillip

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Phillip

Stever responds to Philologos:

I posted this once before, in regards to the specific reference of the "seed of the woman in Genesis 3:15:

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel."

In regards to Genesis 3:15 above we find:
- This was the curse upon the serpent.
- This was the first clear prophecy of a coming redeemer.
- The use of "He" reveals that only one person is meant.
- The word "seed" speaks of offspring or descendant.
- ONLY ONE DESCENDANT OF EVE WAS BORN OF A WOMAN AND NOT A MAN.
- The word "enmity" speaks of warfare.
- Satan’s seed is fallen man.
- Bruising the head speaks of crushing one’s authority.
- Christ’s heal was bruised when He was crucified.
- Satan’s head was crushed when Jesus was crucified.

The New Testament clarifies this further:

Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

Rom 16:19-20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.

Some Notes (from above, plus one more):
1- This was the curse upon the serpent.
2- This was the first clear prophecy of a coming redeemer.
3- The use of "He" reveals that one person is meant.
4- The word "seed" speaks of offspring or descendant.
5- Only one descendant of Eve was born of a woman and not a man.
6- The word "enmity" speaks of warfare.
7- Satan’s seed is fallen man.
8- Bruising the head speaks of crushing one’s authority.
9- Christ’s heal was bruised when He was crucified.
10- Satan’s head was crushed when Jesus was crucified.
11- Ancient Rabbinic Judaism regarded this passage as Messianic (Targum Pseudo-Jonathan and the so-called Jerusalem Targum.

And also the following:
12- Targum Pseudo-Jonathan: "And it shall be that when the sons of the woman study the Torah diligently and obey its injunctions, they will direct themselves to smite you on the head and slay you; but when the sons of the woman forsake the commandments of the Torah and do not obey its injunctions, you will direct yourself to bite them on the heel and afflict them. However, there will be a remedy for the sons of the woman, but for you, serpent, there will be no remedy. They shall make peace with one another in the end, in the very end of days, in the days of the King Messiah."


[b][color=9900FF]My point on this issue of the seed of the woman is that this is a specific prohpecy of the Messiah to Come, Jesus Christ, who would undo what Adam had done.[/color][/b]

""" ONLY ONE DESCENDANT OF EVE WAS BORN OF A WOMAN AND NOT A MAN. """

Either God changed the seed of Mary to be the pre-sin seed of Eve, or the seed of Woman, God from the beginning knowing that Christ must come from a woman and her seed must be Incorruptable. For all corruption comes through Adams seed, the first Adam, 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
"for since by man" in Hebrew does not include woman.

In Christ: Phillip

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Phillip

Christinyou's

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Ron Bailey

Stever's

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Ron Bailey

Stever responds to Philologos:

The understanding of this concept has to do with the fact that Adam was God’s “representative” on the earth. Once Adam sinned, then all of mankind sinned.


Once Christ came and overcame sin--He is now God’s “representative” for all of mankind. Christ has taken care of the sin problem for ALL MEN/WOMEN. The only difference here, is that it is only applied (salvation) for those that believe in HIM. Salvation is available for all, because the debt has been paid. Salvation can only be applied by those that believe in Christ, the “Seed of the Woman”, The Messiah.

Romans Chapter 5 reveals this mystery:

Romans5:
14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who (Adam) is the figure of him that was to come.
15. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17. [b][color=990000]FOR IF BY ONES OFFENCE DEATH REIGNED BY ONE; MUCH MORE THEY WHICH RECEIVE ABUNDANCE OF GRACE AND OF THE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS SHALL REIGN IN LIFE BY ONE, JESUS CHRIST.)
18. THEREFORE AS BY THE OFFENCE OF ONE JUDGMENT CAME UPON ALL MEN TO CONDEMNATION; EVEN SO BY THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF ONE THE FREE GIFT CAME UPON ALL MEN UNTO JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE.[/color][/b]
19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Also, of note, 1 Corinthians tells us that Eve was made for Adam, and Adam was not made for Eve:

8. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

The Living Bible has this to say:
“8. The first man didn't come from woman, but the first woman came out of man.
9. And Adam, the first man, was not made for Eve's benefit, but Eve was made for Adam.”

In conclusion, from what I understand of this matter, Adam was God’s representative on the earth. When he sinned, all were in sin.
God’s answer to this problem was to send His Son down to this earth, to pay the debt for all of mankind. He did this by living a sinless life, and dying on the cross for the sins of mankind, not just his own sin, because He had no sin. He was our once and for all sinless substitute.


God bless,

Stever :-D


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