Stever responds to Philologos:

Your position on this matter does the following:

1. It refutes Scripture, and replaces it with fallen man's understanding.

God's word says: " 28. Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

Your position is in disagreement with God's word.

Why, may I ask, do you put it upon yourself to do this thing?

God bless,

Stever :-D

Dorcas posted:

Jesus' case, the Seed of the woman contributed the other 50%, but 50% x 2 = 100% of Jesus Christ, the Son of man.

This does not make Jesus half God half man, but rather whole God whole man, because each child is 'one flesh' with [b]both[/b] its parents.

Stever's response:

You miss the whole point here. WOMEN DO NOT HAVE SEED! MEN ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT HAVE SEED. The seed of the Woman is Jesus, who was fathered by the Holy Ghost, and prophesized in the Book of Genesis.

Mary was only a vessel to bring about this one and only virgin birth.

God bless,


Stever :-D

Stever--- The quote you refer to in Revalation has to do with redemption, in the same way Israel was redeemed from Egypt at the passover, we all passed from dead unto life, but that's not all that scripture says, by the word of thier testamony, hyper charismatic and penecostal movements have made this to mean what we speak, that's false, It's what we DO in this life, our actions, our deeds of righteousness. And they loved not thier lives unto death, the cross and real physical death in some cases. We have life eternal in Heaven.

I do have to agree with you though about the demonic hating the Blood of Jesus, I've observed that first hand. Never really had any scriptural support for it though.

_________________
D.Miller

Philogos posted:

Quote:
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The works of Trumbull and others have found historical evidence that such basins existed in the homes of people living in the countries of Egypt, Philistia, and other countries in the Middle East at that time, and also in Israel later.
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I have a basin in my home too, but that doesn't mean I store blood in it.

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Stever's response:

Trying to be coy, you miss the whole point. Is the Bason in the middle of your doorway, located on the threshold of your door?

Of course not. The reason Basons were installed there in antiquity was because of animal sacrifices that took place in the doorways of peoples homes.

I quoted Trumbull to you, that documents this.

God bless,


Stever :-D

Philologos posted:

They lives depended on God seeing the blood that was daubed over their doorways which indicated that the inhabitants were inside feeding on the lamb; Ex 12:7
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Stever responds:

There is no Scriptural support for your position. The lamb was sacrificed in the doorway of the home that it had occupied for 4 days. There is no scripture that states the blood was applied to any other doorways.

Again, more conjecture on your part to try and prove a point. Please, use Scripture and or history to support your position.

God bless,

Stever

P.S. the lamb was taken into the home on the 10th of Abib, the 7th month, and lived in the home for 4 days until the sacrifice on the 14th. The families became very acquanited with this animal over this time- it could not leave their house! It had to be without spot or blemish, and it was examined for 4 days.

This corresponds with Christ, and his triumphant entry into Jerusalem on the 10th of Abib. For 4 days the Scribes and Pharasees, and the people examined him. On the 14th of Abib, on the day of Passover, Christ was Crucified for all the sins of the world.

Hi Stever,

You might have missed this post by philologos, which is on p13 of this thread, and is the reason he said what he did about ([i]his[/i]) ribs.

You will find it is [i]completely[/i] compatible with the passage in Romans 5 which you quote, and that in previous threads, he has expounded Romans 5 compatibly with the Living Bible, too.

Interesting to find this up front this morning...

A couple of notes first.
Stever, please try and use the "quote" function or at least a better way of doing these out takes, it is very confusing and gives an impression often times that another members quote is theirs when it is not. It is simple to use the 'QUOTE' button on top of the thread, click on it and cut and paste an out take into the box and then click "OK". Just as well you can type out the HTML language by copying the same format you will see in the preview window; It is [ ] quote in front of the text followed by [/ ] quote at the end of the text. (The word 'quote' goes in between the parenthesis, I cannot type it that way for illustration without it shrinking it down to that which is seen when the post is previewed or posted).

To the matter at hand. None of this has anything to do with [i]pleading the blood[/i], [u]still[/u] ... Had written the following earlier.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Have had a change of mind on this matter or better, another perspective, a paradigm shift of thought.

Stever, with all the respect I can muster to one more aged than myself there is a stubbornness in your opinion that is unrelenting, but so are a great many of us still stubborn, entrenched in positions and opinions, particulars and overstating, re-directing from the matter at hand to draw attention to even that which may be even warranted, true and of a great help. But often those are matters altogether on their own and do not buttress by a weight of evidence to the one aspect, that which is the question at hand. It's a diversion.

But we do it all the time here and not all of it is particularly due to improper motives. I am fairly well convinced that our expressions can be mangled in this form of communication here, that great attempt to articulate tremendous spiritual thought through fallible and yet increasingly (hopefully) enlarged hearts and renewed minds. How many times the thought later comes "That is not what I had hoped to express." Hence the often pleading here for clarification and correction before launching forth on presumptions, to ask and answer questions and to just admit that which seems most difficult strangely for some, 'I was wrong'.

That this great, sinister matter of pride be smitten out of us all. There is a great pride in our opinion and it is often revealed in a relentless, constant defending over positions that if were so true could be left on their own merits in the simplicity of fact. To have to bring in reams of rebuttal for support makes them conspicuous, not to mention this mentality that makes saints think they are in a constant court of law, of contention and argument rather than of fellowship to help each other along the way. It's not a verdict to be won.

Probably a lot of opinion in this as well, do correct it as is needed. Just could but pray we might be more forthcoming in our shortcomings and answer questions directly more than diverting to another question, another aspect. Enough of the ramble of preamble...

Seems to me if anyone is [i]pleading the[/i] precious blood of Jesus, it would be God Himself. I am still struck by the ease and often times flippant and careless ways of which profound truths are recapitulated through lips of saints without forethought or consideration, prayerfulness, again the matter of "without questioning" why we do and say the things we do and say. How often are matters aped unequivocally, taken for granted they are so? When challenged, the defense is raised as a reaction and the Berean mindset is more often stated than practiced in a real effort to get to the bottom of things and relinquish an opinion if need be, scurrying around to support a premise when the premise is what ought to be put to the test.

[u]In My Name[/u]

[i] Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.[/i] Joh 14:13

I must wonder if we are as concerned about this as we ought to be, [i]that the Father may be glorified in the Son[/i].

The things spoken in [i]His[/i] Name, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. In this present case it certainly seems to me this is more than idle words being pronounced, there is something quite presumptuous especially in this modern day religiosity that has mingled and muddied, cheapened so much ... It does seem to be a bit of both though in this phraseology, some with no intentional propensity and a great deal of it just without thought or concern whatsoever. Both are unchecked regardless, I wonder if anyone has bothered to make this truly a matter of prayer. It is either a big deal or it is not a big deal. Are we making too much of it? Or is it probing to a deeper concern?

My concerns are almost always towards a fear of misrepresentation of the Lord, of mixing my still mixed thoughts with those that the Lord is concerned about, has spoken or would have us to truly understand and teach or lead others into. I do not know if right now there is a greater travesty being done in the [i]Name of the Lord[/i] than having that Name ... Might I interject something of a confession here. Since coming out of that which is predominantly this misrepresentation I have found it often strangely difficult to even speak, let alone print this Name above every Name.

Jesus Christ

Doing so just sent chills through me.

It staggered me the other day, I do not recall where exactly, perhaps John, but I found seeing this mighty and all encompassing Name ...
isolated, as if printed on a solitary page, everything around it, blank, no other words ... It sent me to praying and put my mind to silence for a great while, the chattering, churning aspect, to just think of Him and on Him. How profound and worthy He is, [i]never man spake like this man[/i], the greatest understatement of all time. How we forget [i]Who[/i] He in fact [i]is[/i]. That He dwells among us where two or three are gathered, that would mean, right here, right now. It is so beyond us most often or having become so familiar that it just slides on by without consideration ... That the One and [i]same[/i] Holy Spirit ...

Perhaps it is just me and the extra peculiarities that I find peculiar even, am puzzled by ... I will put it this way, I am surely the strangest Christian I know, seemingly out of sorts with so much, unorthodoxically 'orthodox' ?, a bemusement to myself ... My, what the Lord has done and continues to do.

The incredible things of God ... are they not all ... [i]incredible[/i]? The Lord Himself ... it is hard to speak that noble Name anymore, this era's misrepresentation, it 's carelessness, it's making everything so common as to mean little and more pronounced it is the church, the saints, if they could be truly described as such, that is where the trouble lies. I have no problem, actually a non-reaction generally from those who do not know the Lord and speak ... along the same line of thought the Lord Himself made mention;

Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Those that take the Lords Name in vain .. surely they have there own problems to deal with, but how overlooked it is with those who ought to know better. It is that which grieves more. I was in a meeting at work this past week that was a discussion of some upcoming work, a preliminary to a larger meeting to take place soon with a number of individuals. Sparing the details, this particular individual termed it as a "[i]Come to Jesus meeting[/i]". He prefaced the remark with a caveat of uncertainty of whether it was even appropriate or not to coin it in such fashion and at one point even mentioned that it might be a 'cool thing' depending on ones perspective ... I was frankly non-pulsed by it, found no insult or grievance as such, no need to 'set him right' or any such thing. It did leave me wondering a bit, just how much he may know after all, something to bring up at an opportune time. The point I was left with was that sometimes even those who may not know the Lord can have more of an understanding than the saints that let loose all kinds of spurious and unchecked expressions.

This matter of [i]pleading[/i] ... the blood. The paradigm that dawned on me again from God's perspective;

All of Hebrews 9...

[i]And he took a cup, and gave thanks, and gave to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins. But I say unto you, I shall not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom[/i]. Mat 26:27-29

[i]Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be [u]guilty of the body and blood of the Lord[/u][/i]. 1Co 11:27

[i]But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ[/i]. Eph 2:13

It seems these share more in common from God's perspective...

[i]And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.[/i] Gen 4:10

[i]The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; [u]And killed the Prince of life[/u], whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.[/i] Act 3:13 -15

[i]But with the [u]precious blood of Christ[/u], as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:[/i] 1Pe 1:19

[i]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.[/i]
Col 1:20

To [i]us[/i]
His blood is precious
His Name is precious

Mal 1:14 But cursed be the deceiver, who hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto the Lord a blemished thing; for I am a great King, saith Jehovah of hosts, and [i]my name is terrible among the Gentiles[/i].

Is it anymore? What of the saints? What of this generation of Christendom, flying past everything without pause long enough to consider ...

That there is nothing of substance in naming and proclaiming, of binding anything, [b]I[/b] claim, [b]I[/b] demand this, that and the other, [b]I[/b] plead ...

Forgive me, I realize again that for some there is not the intention of this sort undergirding this matter of [i]pleading[/i], but is it not still a [i]presumption[/i]? Has it not in this day been turned into just more glib clichés', the same sentiment of;

Act 10:15 And a voice came unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, make not thou common.

_________________
Mike Balog