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Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Stever wrote:

Quote:
Christian believers today, in 2006 have no understanding of the [b][color=0000FF]Blood Covenants that have been part of civilization from the very beginning[/color][/b].

I don't care about pagan blood Covenants. I totaly understand Gods' blood Covenant.

We are not talking about Gods' blood Covenant, we are talking about [b][u]pleading the blood[/u] of the Covenant[/b], witch is a totaly diferent thing all together.

when you plead the blood, all you are doing is pleading not guilty in other words.

So then, how does pleading the blood for unsaved peolpe make sence if they are guilty, or pleading the blood for saved people help any more that if God sees the Blood already?

You also mentioned that pleading the blood is for protection, how does pleading not guilty protect you?

I've asked several other questions and made comments that you did not refute yet (makes me think you have no answer for them) please answer them one by one to persuade me to the truth if I am wrong.

Truly, I don't want to be wrong, I love the truth!

 2006/6/30 11:05Profile









 Re:

Stever responds to Logic:

In Egypt, the physical blood of slain animals was physically applied at the doorways by the Israelites, creating the symbol of the cross. (Passover----Jesus is our Passover)


The physical blood was applied by the Priests- on the altar, and the horns of the altar, on the Torah, and on their clothing, and on the Mercy Seat.

The blood of Christ is applied by the believer symbolically in prayer. We are Priests that have direct access to heaven, and have been provided with the Power of Attorney by Jesus Christ to use His name. We can apply the blood (symbolically) to those that we pray for, and to situations that we pray about.


There is power in the blood. I have posted Scriptural reference about the power of the blood on my previous posts. The weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds

3. For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4. (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5. Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6. And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
7. Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.
8. For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:

There is nothing in the Bible that says WE CANNOT APPLY THE BLOOD SYMBOLICALLY, which is what I have done for the past 7 years. I have seen continuous answer to prayer on a daily basis. I have seen the “tearing down of strongholds” by pleading the blood, the healing of incurable diseases, and many wonderful things during this time.

If God took offense to my pleading the blood of Christ He would surely not answer my prayers. At the very least, He would correct me in this regard. He never has. Many people plead the blood of Christ. It is only that recently, in the past 50 years, mention of the "blood" is an offence to many christians, and most seminaries.
xxxxxxx

Logic posted:
Quote:"I don't care about pagan blood Covenants. I totaly understand Gods' blood Covenant."

Stever's response:

It is the blood of Jesus Christ that binds us (Believers) to the almighty. Believers have a Blood Covenant Relationship with God Himself!

In conclusion, Logic, it is my understanding from your various posts on this matter that you do not understand the Blood Covenant in general, or in the Believers Blood Covenant relationship with the creator in regards to the Blood of Jesus Christ.


God bless,

Stever :-D

Logic- read my last post, before this one.




Quote:

Logic wrote:
Stever wrote:
Quote:
Christian believers today, in 2006 have no understanding of the [b][color=0000FF]Blood Covenants that have been part of civilization from the very beginning[/color][/b].

I don't care about pagan blood Covenants. I totaly understand Gods' blood Covenant.

We are not talking about Gods' blood Covenant, we are talking about [b][u]pleading the blood[/u] of the Covenant[/b], witch is a totaly diferent thing all together.

when you plead the blood, all you are doing is pleading not guilty in other words.

So then, how does pleading the blood for unsaved peolpe make sence if they are guilty, or pleading the blood for saved people help any more that if God sees the Blood already?

You also mentioned that pleading the blood is for protection, how does pleading not guilty protect you?

I've asked several other questions and made comments that you did not refute yet (makes me think you have no answer for them) please answer them one by one to persuade me to the truth if I am wrong.

Truly, I don't want to be wrong, I love the truth!

 2006/6/30 11:37
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Stever wrote:

Quote:
The blood of Christ is applied by the believer symbolically in prayer.


We don't aply the blood, God does.

Where do you get that the blood of Christ is applied by the believer in prayer?

Quote:
We can apply the blood (symbolically) to those that we pray for, and to situations that we pray about.


How does pleading the blood help those who do not have the blood?

How does pleading the blood help in situations?

How is Pleading the blood (that which cleanses us from sin) taking hold of authority?

Why would you need to take hold of what we already have?

when God sees the blood in the first place, what is the need to plead it?
He is the one you are pleading to.

[b]PLEASE,[/b] I beg you, answer each question.
I want to know, seriously.

without useing the whole page, being toooooo wordy.
I am sorry, I don't read posts that are more than 2 maybe 3 paragraphs, if I do, I scim over them.

 2006/6/30 11:54Profile









 Re:

I have answered your questions, Logic.

If you find no value in pleading the blood of Jesus Christ, then by all means DO NOT.


God bless,

Stever :-D

Quote:

Logic wrote:
Stever wrote:
Quote:
The blood of Christ is applied by the believer symbolically in prayer.


We don't aply the blood, God does.

Where do you get that the blood of Christ is applied by the believer in prayer?

Quote:
We can apply the blood (symbolically) to those that we pray for, and to situations that we pray about.


How does pleading the blood help those who do not have the blood?

How does pleading the blood help in situations?

How is Pleading the blood (that which cleanses us from sin) taking hold of authority?

Why would you need to take hold of what we already have?

when God sees the blood in the first place, what is the need to plead it?
He is the one you are pleading to.

[b]PLEASE,[/b] I beg you, answer each question.
I want to know, seriously.

without useing the whole page, being toooooo wordy.
I am sorry, I don't read posts that are more than 2 maybe 3 paragraphs, if I do, I scim over them.

 2006/6/30 12:21
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Stever wrote:

Quote:
I have answered your questions, Logic.

If you find no value in pleading the blood of Jesus Christ, then by all means DO NOT.



Logic wrote:
Quote:
PLEASE, I beg you, answer each question.
I want to know, seriously.


Have mercy on me please. Do you not care that I want to know?
My questions tell you why I see no value in pleading the blood,
if you tell me the answers I will then the value in pleading the blood.

I am asking as a friend, don't take the eazy out and just quite on me.

If Stever will not answer, some one please answer my 5 eazy questions in my last post.


 2006/6/30 13:02Profile









 Re:

Stever responds to logic:

If you can find scripture proof text of why I should not, or why I can not, then we have something to discuss. Otherwise, it is nothing more than he-said, she-said.

I find value in doing this. Like I have posted previously:

1. In Egypt, the ancient Israelites placed to physical blood of the sacrificed lamb on the doorway, and on the lentil. With the blood in the basin, at the foot of the doorway, the blood created a cross.

2. In Israel, the Priest placed the blood on the altar, on the horns of the altar, on the Mercy seat, on the Torah, on their priestly robes, and elsewhere.

3. Today, we are priests that have also been supplied with Name, the Name above all names by the power of attorney provided by Jesus Christ to all believers. We also have the authority to plead the supernatural blood of Jesus Christ on anyone or anything that we are praying for.

In 1999 I asked my pastor if they would play the song "amazing Grace". He said that I would have to talk with the music minister. This young man was attending Biola University and studying to be a pastor. When I talked to him he said that he really wasn't interested in playing this old song, eventhough it was my favorite. The reason? Because it was the position of Biola that all of the songs with reference to sin, as well as the blood got in peoples way, and they wanted to bring more people into the Church.

What a sad thing to happen- the blood of Christ, and the sin that we have all inherited from Adam should no longer be mentioned in order to bring new people into the Church? How will they ever be saved? The revelation that we have all sinned and broken the law is what drives us to Christ!

Shortly after this event I became baptized in the Holy Ghost and filled with the Holy Spirit. At this time God's Word came alive to me.

The Church today has no understanding and places no value on the shed blood of Jesus Christ, the Seed of the Woman. The father always supplies the blood type of the child. Christ's father was the Holy Ghost, and Jesus Christ carried the blood of God in His veins. That is why he never sinned, because He did not have the blood of
Adam in His veins. He was tempted, just as we are, but never sinned by thought or by deed. He was the sinless one. Mary provided Him with the Body, and God provided Him with His Blood. He is our sinless substitute,and no other.

God bless,

Stever :-D

 2006/6/30 15:55
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
1. In Egypt, the ancient Israelites placed to physical blood of the sacrificed lamb on the doorway, and on the lentil. With the blood in the basin, at the foot of the doorway, the blood created a cross.



Where do you get the idea of "blood in a basin at the foot of the doorway"? Ex 12:22
and how does a horizontal and two verticals make a 'cross'? Ex12:7


Quote:
We also have the authority to plead the supernatural blood of Jesus Christ on anyone or anything that we are praying for.



Are you just making this up as you go along?


Quote:
The father always supplies the blood type of the child. Christ's father was the Holy Ghost, and Jesus Christ carried the blood of God in His veins. That is why he never sinned, because He did not have the blood of Adam in His veins.



You think that sin is genetic!?!


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/6/30 16:42Profile









 Re: The Passover in Egypt

Stever responds to Philologos:

Exodus 12:21-23
21. Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
22. And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the [b][color=003300]BASON[/color][/b], and strike the LINTEL (The top of the doorway) and THE TWO SIDE POSTS with the BLOOD that is in the [b][color=003300]BASON[/color][/b]; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. 23. For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

Here we see a picture of the cross. In ancient Egypt the Jews lived in homes with a [b][color=003300]BASON[/color][/b], right in the middle of the doorway. Here we see that the lamb is sacrificed in the doorway, his throat is slit, over the basin, and the blood drains into the basin. Hyssop is used to dip into the blood and to paint it on the Lintel (the top of the doorway), as well as on the two side posts of the doorway. Blood is sitting in the [b][color=003300]BASON[/color][/b], in the bottom of the doorway, in the middle of it. Blood is applied on the left and right side of the doorway. Blood is applied at the very top of the doorway, on the lintel. This has created a picture of the Cross!

Dr. H. Clay Trubull in his book “Threshold Covenant”, published originally in 1898 we find reference to this ancient custom of sacrifice, with specific reference to Egypt:

In early times the threshold had a special sanctity; and that of the Temple was a marked spot, indicating specific taboos (see I Sam. v. 4 et seq.; comp. Zeph. i. 9). There were special keepers (A. V. "porters") of the threshold (II. Kings xxii. 4; I Chron. ix. 22; II Chron. xxiii. 4; Jer. xxxv. 4). There is a wide-spread custom of making family sacrifices at the threshold in addition to those at the hearth. Herodotus reports this of the Egyptians (ii. 48). Trumbull suggests that there is a specific reference to the threshold in Ex. xii. 22 (LXX.), in connection with the institution of the Passover. Even to the present day it is considered unlucky to tread on the threshold. He suggests also that the word "pesaḥ," or "passover," means a "leaping over" the threshold, after it has been sanctified with the blood of the threshold-covenant. The threshold of Dagon's temple was evidently sacred in this way; and it has been suggested by Cheyne that I Kings xviii. 20-21 should be rendered "How long will ye leap over both thresholds?" (that is, worship both Baal and Yhwh).

Bibliography: H. Clay Trumbull, Threshold Covenant, Philadelphia, 1896

It is my understanding, from the works of Trumbull, as well as those of Dr. Floyd Nolen Jones, that the basin was located in the doorways of ancient Egypt, Phillistia, and Israel, and other nations. This was because of the sacrifices that took place there, in the doorway.


God bless,

Stever :-D

P.S. The Threshold Covenant can also be found at htttp://www.amazon.com

[b][color=003300]BASON[/color][/b]

 2006/6/30 20:25









 Re:

Philologos posted:

The father always supplies the blood type of the child. Christ's father was the Holy Ghost, and Jesus Christ carried the blood of God in His veins. That is why he never sinned, because He did not have the blood of Adam in His veins.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You think that sin is genetic!?!

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Stever responds:

You bet I do. We are all born sinners, on our way to hell. Each of us has inherited the sin nature passed down to us by Adam's blood. [The Jewish Sacrificial sytem, established by God provided 2 mandatory sacrifices for His chosen people: 1) The "Sin Sacrifice" for our sin nature inherited from Adam; 2) The "Trespass/Guilt Sacrifice" offered for specific sin that had been committed, as well as any "unkown" sin]

The Bible tells us of our "condition", through the eyes of God:

Isaiah 64:6
“6. But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.”

Romans 3:10
“ 10. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:”

Philologos, who do you know that has NEVER sinned by THOUGHT OR DEED, EVER? There is only one, Jesus Christ, the God man. Everyone else is hopeslessly lost without Him.

How does the 1st and 2nd Adam mentioned in Romans make any sense whatsoever, without this understanding that we are all sinners who have inherited sin from Adam (Adams blood)?

Romans 5:14-21 " 14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18. Therefore (IN CONCLUSION) as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF ONE (Jesus Christ) the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

xxxxxxxx

Also, 1 Cor 15:22
" 22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

and 1 Cor 15:45-50
"45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50. Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION."

Here is another one, telling us that Adam knew that he was sinning, while Eve was truly deceived:

1 Timothy 2
13. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
xxxxxxxxxxx

We all have the blood of Adam running through our veins, our hope is the blood of Christ Jesus. Our redemption is found in Him, and no where else.


God bless,

Stever :-D

 2006/6/30 21:13









 Re: Pleading the blood?


Hi Stever,

You said this (in slightly different words)

Quote:
The father always supplies the blood type of the child. Christ's father was the Holy Ghost, and Jesus Christ carried the blood of God in His veins.

in FOC's 'Literalism without Context' thread, and I responded, (fyi).

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=10731&forum=36&start=30&viewmode=flat&order=0]https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=10731&forum=36&start=30&viewmode=flat&order=0[/url]

Perhaps you could reply there, not to divert this topic too far? Thanks.

 2006/6/30 22:10





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