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Nellie
Member



Joined: 2004/4/5
Posts: 952


 Re:

They sing a Song at our Church called'Can't nobody do me like Jesus," and I don't like it.
No one can Love us like Jesus.
The word do is inappropiate.
Jesus is to be Glorified.
Nellie

 2006/6/24 11:00Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Straining a gnat?

Quote:
And I have believed in a lie



That seemed to solve what came afterword. To tell the truth I think a great deal of these replies say a lot more about what is going on in the heart then might be admitted. The song itself is simple and harmless, why the myopic inspection?

Fully realize the other addendums to worship music in general, but isn't this a bit much?


_________________
Mike Balog

 2006/6/24 17:09Profile









 Re: Questionable song - Be Magnified

crsschk said:

Quote:
why the myopic inspection?

Mike,

The more that there are out-of-church Christians listening to Christian music on their own, instead of joinging large (or small) groups of believers to sing wholesome psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, the more it matters what an individual believer is feeding his spirit. The words with which one is left going round and round in one's head, matter enormously. For that reason alone, I would never leave a line such as the ones highlighted here, in a song which I hoped would minister [i]life[/i] to the listener.... because I know how one can lose the thread and meaning of a whole sentence, if only part of it is easy to sing.

The second thing is that churches are increasingly departing from wholesome Christian songs, with really edify the spirit and minister life to the soul. One may have been bored with the same tunes in the past, but, at least the words were safe on the whole. Having said that, I'm becoming more aware of how much theology is packed into hymns. Some definitely give the impression of OSAS, whereas others are more careful to qualify how a person is saved.

Psalms are very safe. Pure word of God put to music... Soul food.

 2006/6/24 17:29
freedbyjc
Member



Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida

 Re:

Quote:
There are few of us, and growing in numbers.



Again I am reminded of the ditty that "if you are walking and talking with God and all of a sudden you realized that He's gone... [u]who moved[/u]?"

We are called into a [b]relationship[/b] with God through Christ. It not rules, rhymes, rhythms but a relationship. Close relationships deal with the changes that are experienced in a manner that indicates the individual's deep felt desire to maintain that right relationship. Like dancing, we move together... to the rhythm that we feel to maintain a closeness...minute pressures in the hands and hips guide our steps and make us one in body and in spirit.
Quote:
Would you mind my asking .... is this your approachable voice? Does this suggestion mean you are open, personally, to the possibility that you are in error?



No, I do not mind, questions are never a problem...Yes, so far, in all cases the problem has been in the heart of the complainer. I always start a discussion of this sort by focussing on them and their desire to address the problem and draw them into a discussion...a offhand comment to complain is taken as it is given [unless vindictive in natrure and done in a public setting and then discipline is called for].

I immediately start a discussion by praying for [b]both[/b] of our hearts and ears be open to God's words and to allow for a spirit of love and to allow us to come to a concensus in the matter at hand. And, YES, this includes being personally open to the idea that we can be in error. The scriptures never, humans, consistently.

But[again so far] as we are corporately and personally comitted to worship in Spirit and in Truth, we measure all of efforts to that goal.

Usually, the complaint has to do with a dear ones [and they are [u]all[/u] dear] feeling as though the matter of their personal worship need or goal is not being met or their being distracted by the matter at hand: a song's lyrics, its tune, another person's attitude of worship, a lead worshipper's gesture... all deal with a personal departure of the 'norm' that "inhibits personal worship" by the complainer's focussing in it and not their worship of Christ.

Distractions, for some, are a matter of course in the process of worship, while others standing next to them are oblivious to the distraction. While sometimes unavoidable due to our human-ness, we always seek to minimize any man-made distractions for the worshipper.

If your church's corporate worship is becoming as distractions then either be ther prophet that calles then to task ro shake the dust from your feet and move on. We have had some move on but not for worships sake.

Quote:
I think 'lifting Him to the unsaved', and 'worshipping God and Glorifying Him', are two different activities.


Hmmm... could be! If they were done in a specific context to those purposes-[and there is a time and place for that] But we hold that as we gather in a worship service to worship Him as a church body, the unsaved that are our guests, see our worship and through it, our hearts, and feel that 'that is what I want to feel.'

Overwealmingly, when we have asked our new members as to the draw to join our membership it has been the examples of the love of Christ that they have been experiencing in our worship of Him and as we allow that worship of God and the love of Christ to overflow into the rest of our lives, they always mention our joyful fellowship we share as we worship Him with our lives. We are like Andrew, so overjoyed to find Christ that we bring all of our brothers and friends to Him.


_________________
bill schnippert

 2006/6/26 9:54Profile









 Re: Questionable song - Be magnified


Hi freedbyjc,

Thanks for your full answer to my first question.

Quote:
to allow us to come to a concensus in the matter at hand

Would you have scripture for the matter of 'consensus'?

 2006/6/26 11:42









 Re:

Treasureak said:

Quote:
Have you ever made God too small in your eyes? Of course you have and needed to repent, truly repent from this sin of unbelief.
Have you ever taken your eyes of God, and placed them on your problems and or circumstance? Of course you have even if it was for just a one second you have, and needed to repent from this sin of unbelief. And I have believed in a lie that you were unable to help me.



Wonderfully put, absolutely wonderful. I would love to be in a worship service with you.

Karl

 2006/6/26 13:35
freedbyjc
Member



Joined: 2004/7/29
Posts: 204
Jacksonville. Florida

 Re:

CONSENSUS

Scripturally, We look to our Brother Paul for his Holy Spirit inspired guidance...[i]I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you [b]agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you [/b]and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.[/i]1 Corinthians 1:10 [ Divisions in the Church ]

By Mr. Webster it's defined as [i]general or widespread agreement among all the members of a group[/i].

[i]“In essentials (doctrine) unity, in non-essentials (opinions) liberty, in all things charity.” [/i]- Rupertus Meldenius (Peter Meiderlin, the Lutheran priest) 1626

We seek to at all times, [b][i]“Speak where the Bible speaks and remain silent where the Bible is silent.” [/i][/b]- [i]“Declaration And Address”[/i] From Thomas Campbell, one of the leaders of the [url=http://www.therestorationmovement.com]Restoration Movement[/url].

But, as shepherds in dealing with the 'flock' there are times that issues among the members arise and must be resolved and we cannot remain silent and have relationships or even whole the church divided by those conflicts. These are those times that we will strive for unanimity but lacking that we will form a "consensus."

We use 1 Corinthians 1:10 as a body of church leaders to describe situation where we may not all agree to a specific statement or a practical solution to an issue or conflict but we are ALL in agreement that this is the course of action that scripture would dictate and we will support it unanimously.

Unfortunately, in some matters the offender cannot be corrected and we have to agree to disagree. At this point, we move to Ephesians 4:29 [i]Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.[/i] IF this is violated and it becomes divisive, we address it from Matthew 18:15-17 [usually it has already reached step 3 by this time] and allow the respondent's actions dictate the events and their consequences from there.


_________________
bill schnippert

 2006/6/27 9:43Profile
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
It saddens me deeply to see someone so unhappy during worship. Is it the corporate worship that bothers you or the fact that they do not worship like you want them to? Are you seeking to glorify God and worship Christ or to worship your 'personal idol' of worship- a specific choice of style and methods that others do not share?



Unhappiness in a worshp service can come from two sources. One is that we are in a wrong spirit and frame of mind and not in felloswhip with God. The other is when we are in a right frame and spirit and fellowship with God and the worship service is not.

A soulish worship service full of shallow repetition of unbiblical coruses repeated over and over to bring people into an emotional state of "worship" is contrary to the Spirit in our spirit and greives our spirit.

I say "Amen" to this brothers experience and consern.

I sometimes turn on a contemprorary Christian music station in my city and have to turn it off in a couple of minutes. The so called "worship songs" have nothing that touches the spirit. It is purely soulish. I say this not because I have a negateive opinion on any venue, but it is just the effect it has on one's spirit.

The content is Old testament. God is "out their and up their" and wholy related to His power in circomstances. But there is nothing of "Christ in you, the hope of Glory". Nothing of His indwelling Life. Nothing of the New Testament revealtion of Christ. He is worshiped as the one who sits in power above, but what of His indwelling Life and power to usward who believe? That is His indwelling Life and power to reveal Himself within us and to impart His Life within us. It is absent from the "worshp songs" and therefore has nothing of God's New Testemant economy.

Sadly this is the realty of what is passed off in contemporary Christian music. It is aimed at giving a little encouragment in our dreams and pursuits and to show us God is there to help us when we are down. But there is nothing of concecration, nothing of living by Christ, nothing of God's eternal purpose, Just God as our helper in our natural life.

The more time we spend in genuine fellowship in spirit with the living crucified and resurrected Christ and the more enjoyment we have of Him in His Word, the more our spiritual senses are quickened and the more we dicern the abismal lack in what is perpetrated as "Christian Worship".

When you become accostomed to solid food with genuine nourishment, you dicern the "cotton candy" of religion and emotional music which has no noursishment. You have a taste for realtiy and Life and substitutes leave you feeling cheated and gagged.

It is a matter of Life and the exprerience of Life and not a matter of the tree of the knowlege of good and evil. Not, 'this music is wrong becaus of what they wear, etc', but rather it expresses the shallow worship of the soul and does not express the reality of Christ in and by the Spirit. It is natural religion and not the reality of Christ and the New Testament.

Graftedbranch

 2006/6/27 20:10Profile
Enroute
Member



Joined: 2006/6/25
Posts: 4


 Re:

Am I the only one feeling so small? I have been saved for almost 18 years. During that time frame, I have made many msitakes in the form of:
Hypocrisy
Slanderous talk
Unbelief/doubt
My experience has been one of falling and needing God to help me up because without Him I was/am nothing. More often than not, I was double-minded in my "theology" that I could do all things through Christ who strengthens me, however, I thought I has the responibility to take the horns of the alter and overthrow the complete sovereignty of God who wills and works His way with men. He rains/reigns on the just and the unjust. He performs His wonders for all men to see..He causes the hardening of hearts and He causes the softening of hearts. He and He alone is responsible for our salvation and for keeping us saved. He and He alone is worthy of praise for revealing error in our lives.

Have we forgotten the very primary element of failure before God? Have we not taken note of Satan's ministry which He abused through the sin of allowing pride to cloud his "JUDGEMENT". Can we never get past the first law of love...to love the Lord with ALL of our mind and strength?

I have experienced the depth of the mercy and grace of God. I have heard/read that a true Christian will not fall into sin, will not fall into temptation; that true Christians will recognize error in doctrine, mannerisms. We have allowed theology to drive us away from the very purpose of our existence...to worship HIM. There is no difference or scale of sin...we have all fallen short of the glory of God...we have all been deceived-if you deny this...you make the word of God as invalid as picking apart the writer of the song's heart and separating it into manageable parts for your own personal satisfaction and judgement.

I am a "member" of a local body that is so PRO-Southern Gospel, any other form/style of "worship" is inacceptable. This is denial of the current and fresh creativity of God. This is a form of rejecting the victory and overcomer's witness by the blood of the Lamb and the WORD OF OUR TESTIMONY. If all sins being equal with the exception of blaspheming the Holy Spirit, how can we self-righteously proclaim this song is not a corporate worship song and is it worth the division that our enemy desires?

Finally, do we know the history of music? Do we know that all music began as sacred? Do we know that even putting words to the melody was frowned upon in the early times? Do we know that changing the words from Latin caused division? Do we know that having women sing the songs was heresy at one time? Do we know that the melodies of "church" music became interchangeable with secular lyrics to make it palatable and gain acceptance? Do we know that today's music causes division...or is it the intents of OUR HEARTS?

Let us worship in Spirit and Truth.

 2006/6/28 0:51Profile









 Re:

I would'nt read in to this song too much it sounds like every other modern day praise and worship type song out there. If you've heard one you've heard them all.

I see a big problem with alot of the modern so called popular christian music. I've listened to alot of these songs and thought to myself that this could be a love song about someones lover or girfriend or wife or husband ect... Seems to have a lack of focus on the saviour or doctrine or holinesss ect... Lack of piety. The flesh indeed loves the rythm and beat and the harmonious vocals and all the wonderfull instruments and ear candy. But the real question is does it really glorify God?

I'm not trying to be legalistic, but I do think we should be careful what we take into our ears. It is a doorway to our soul and will have an effect on us in some way. Either positive or negative.

I was hooked on rock music before I was saved but found that I could no longer enjoy this type of worldy music after my conversion. I think music is one of the most powerful forces on this earth and can be either used for good or evil.

 2006/6/28 8:49





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