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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


Yes Christ had the blood of God the Father in Him. He was all man also. No blood of animals could be offered for atonement for man. No man's blood could be offered for man's atonement.
The only sacrifice God could accept for man was the Blood of God, who is Jesus Christ the man.
A Blood sacrifice of the Only man that could save the world form sin was the Blood of God in the Man Jesus. That Blood was in the garden, it was at the whipping post, it was on the road from the post to the Cross, and the rest was at the Foot of the Cross, all poured out for the sin of the world. For any individual that believes it is personal atonement for all who believe.

Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God. I also believe Jesus could have entered, even before His death if He chose to. He was the Spotless Lamb of God. He chose not to be equal with God in that He offered Himself a sacrifice for many. The many are those that believe.

Where does it say that the Blood of Christ, the physical blood shed on this earth is in a bowl on the mercy seat?

1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Also where does it say in God's capacity as the Holy Spirit that the Holy Spirit is God the Father of Jesus Christ?

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/5/24 22:13Profile


Christinyou posted:

Also where does it say in God's capacity as the Holy Spirit that the Holy Spirit is God the Father of Jesus Christ?


Stever's response to Christinyou:

Matthew 1:18
18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was FOUND WITH CHILD OF THE HOLY GHOST.

Luke 1:34-35
“34. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35. And the angel answered and said unto her, THE HOLY GHOST SHALL COME UPON THEE, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”


We all know that the Trinity consists of the Father (God), the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Ghost.

The Doctrine of the Trinity consists of:
1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut. 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa. 44:6; Mark 12:29, 32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

God bless,

Stever :-)

 2006/5/24 23:11


Chrintinyou posted:

Where does it say that the Blood of Christ, the physical blood shed on this earth is in a bowl on the mercy seat?

Stever responds:

There was no "bowl" on the mercy seat. The blood was sprinkled directly on it by the Priest once a year at the day of Atonement.

In the ancient sacrificial system, set up by God at Mount Sinai, specific sacrifies and feasts were established by God FOREVER. The New Testament tells us that Jesus Christ has fulfilled most of these sacrifices. Jesus is our:

1. Passover

2. Firstfruits

3. Atonement

1 Cor. 5:7-8 tells us that Christ was crucified for us. That Christ is our Passover! Christ, in His own body, has now fulfilled the Passover sacrifices that had taken place for over 1,500 years before He finally came as the FINAL SACRIFICE, that God set up at Mount Sinai:

7. Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. [b][color=0099FF]For even Christ our PASSOVER is sacrificed for us[/color][/b]:
8. Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

[b][color=0099FF]Pilot announced this on the morning of the Jewish Passover, the day that he went to the Cross[/color][/b]

38. Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
39. But ye have a custom, [b][color=0099FF]THAT I SHOULD RELEASE UNTO YOU ONE AT THE PASSOVER[/color][/b]: will ye therefore that I release unto you the King of the Jews?
40. Then cried they all again, saying, Not this man, but Barabbas. Now Barabbas was a robber. [John 18:38-40]


13. When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha.
14. [b][color=0099FF]IT WAS THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER,[/color][/b] and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
15. But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. [John 19:13-15]


Christ is our “Firstfruits”. Christ rose from the dead on the first day of the week, Sunday, the feast of “Firstfruits” that had been celebrated for over 1,500 years, and was established by God at Mount Sinai, that has now been fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 15:20 tells us:
20.[b][color=0099FF] But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the FIRSTFRUITS of them that slept.[/color][/b].

Christ has given us our Atonement. He has satisfied and completed the sacrifice of atonement for the people, reconciling all of them that believe in Him to God:

[Romans 5:8-21]
8. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10. For if, when we were enemies, WE WERE RECONCILED TO GOD BY THE DEATH OF HIS SON, MUCH MORE, BEING RECONCILED, WE SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE.
11. ][b][color=00CC00]And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the ATONEMENT.[/color][/b].
12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13. (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20. Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21. That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

[b][color=0033FF]Note- If you have one of the "newer" versions of the Bible, other than the KJV, you won't find this teaching there. The word ATONEMENT has been replaced by the word RECONCILLIATION, so the teaching is lost. The "New" King James also takes part in this error.[/color][/b]

This is a detailed study. If you are interested I will send you more information about the “Sacrifices of Leviticus” that you might find fruitful.

God bless,

Stever :-)


Hebrews 8 tells us that the Tabernacle, and the sacrifices, etc. on the earth were only a “shadow”, only a “picture” of the true Tabernacle that exists in heaven, that was made by God without hands (i.e. spoken into existence):

Hebrews 8

1. Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest (Jesus Christ), who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2. A minister of the sanctuary, and of theTRUE TABERNACLE , WHICH THE LORD PIRCHED, AND NOT MAN.
3. For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
4. For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

 2006/5/24 23:46

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


The Father is not the Holy Spirit, yet the Spirit of God is Holy and they are One. Christ is not the Holy Spirit yet the Spirit of Christ is Holy and they are One. The Holy Spirit is not the Father or the Son but they are all Holy and One by the truth of being only One God.

The Holy Spirit is not the Father of Jesus Christ the Son of God who Christ call Father, not Holy Spirit as He calls Him many times the Comforter, the Holy Spirit.

Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This is not the Holy Spirit saying this is my beloved Son. It is God the Father. The Father's Seed was Christ. The Holy Spirit was the mechanism of overshadowing Mary from the Power of Life which is on High.

In Christ: Phillip

Still don't see the physical blood of Christ shed on the earth as being in heaven. Spiritually sprinkled maybe, still looking. Drink in remembrance of Me, for this is the blood of the new testament.

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/5/25 3:38Profile


Christinyou posted:

Still don't see the physical blood of Christ shed on the earth as being in heaven. Spiritually sprinkled maybe, still looking. Drink in remembrance of Me, for this is the blood of the new testament


Stever Responds:

Hebrews, Chapter 9:1-28 offers the teaching in regards to Christ's fulfillment of the [b][color=00CC00]Atonement [/color][/b] at the real Mercy Seat, that sits in the Throne Room of Heaven

[The Sacrifice described here in Hebrews Chapter 9 is the Atonement, that took place once a year, for over 1,500 years until Christ came and fulfilled it]

Hebrews 9

1. Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2. For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3. And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4. Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5. And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6. Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
[b][color=00CC00] 7. But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8. The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9. Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10. Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12. Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but BY HIS OWN BLOOD HE ENTERED IN ONCE INTO THE HOLY PLACE [HEAVEN], having obtained eternal redemption for us.
13. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14. How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?[/color][/b]
15. And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16. For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18. Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19. For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
20. Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
21. Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
25. Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26. For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: BUT NOW ONCE IN THE END OF THE WORLD HATH HE APPEARED TO PUT AWAY SIN BY THE SACRIFICE OF HIMSELF. 27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; [b][color=0066FF]AND UNTO THEM THAT LOOK TO HIM SHALL APPEAR THE SECOND TIME WITHOUT SIN INTO SALVATION.[/color][/b]

God bless,

Stever :-)

 2006/5/25 10:30

Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619

 Re: Literalism without context.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I like the Recovery Version:

Everyone who is begotton of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him: and he cannot sin, because he has been begotton of God.

The footnote says:

"I. e. cannot live in sin habitually. a regenerated believer may fall into sin occasionally, but the divine life as the divine seed in his regenerated nature will not allow him to live in sin. This is similar to a sheep; it may fall into the mud, but its clean life will not allow it to remain and to wallow in the mud as a swine would.


 2006/5/26 12:44Profile

Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


I know some calvinists who believe the flesh sins, yet the spirit does reconcile "cannot sin" this what you believe?

I don't know about being a "calvinist" but the revelation of the Bible is that our spirit is regenerated with the Life of God when we believe into Christ and according to Romans 8: The spirit is life because of rightousness".

Our regenerated spirit has been resurrected by the Divine life and is the only part of our being which is free from sin.

Even though our spirit is Life because of the rightousness of Christ, our soul is yet being renewed and sanctified. Our mind is being renewed, our emotions are being sanctified, and our will is being subdued and brought under the Divine Administration throug the Spirit who indwells our regenerated spirit.

And so the entrance into the Christian Life is the regeneration of our spirit, our growth in Life is the renewal and sanctifiecation of our soul. Eventually at the Lord's returne, even our bodies will be transfigured and made alive as Romans 8 says, "Through His Spirit who indwells us".

So our spirit is already in resurrection and our soul is being renewed and transformed and our bodies will be transfigured. IN the end we shall be like HIm because we shall see Him as He is.


 2006/5/26 12:50Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707



""""I like the Recovery Version:"""""

""Everyone who is begotton of God does not practice sin, because His seed abides in him: and he cannot sin, because he has been begotton of God.

The footnote says:

"I. e. cannot live in sin habitually. a regenerated believer may fall into sin occasionally, but the divine life as the divine seed in his regenerated nature will not allow him to live in sin. This is similar to a sheep; it may fall into the mud, but its clean life will not allow it to remain and to wallow in the mud as a swine would.""

This puts the Spirit of Christ in a state of sin, although not habitually and a swine that sometimes plays in the mud. The Spirit of Christ is the only spirit of a man that cannot sin. The soul-mind can choose to sin but does not have to. The flesh can be controlled as Paul states, but the Spirit cannot sin because of His Seed that is in the believer, or else you make Christ the seed of sin which is Satan's seed and we then are blaspheming the Holy Spirit because Christ is who He came to reveal. God is the Creator of evil but not the progenitor, for God cannot sin and either can the Spirit of Christ that is born again in the Believer.

Hear are Both. Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.


Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

By the Spirit of Christ we are His and He cannot sin. Making John's revelation correct and true by the Spirit of the Living Word that is in Him, Incorruptable Seed.Galatians 2:17-18 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

We are justified in Christ, By the Spirit of Christ that is now our Spirit and He Cannot Sin.

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/5/26 22:03Profile

Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


Whach out and beware of the Recovery Version Bible.

It was writen by Watchman Nee

[url=]Click here to read the warning[/url]

 2006/5/26 23:22Profile

 Re: Literalism without context

Stever said

In paternity suits filed today, the paternity of the baby is determined by the blood type of the father, not the mother. The father’s blood flows through the childs veins, not the mothers. The problem is, it is still the blood of Adam.

Objection! This is not true at all.

Babies have their own blood group, which, depending on the finer details of that blood group, may or may not be the same as either one of its parents. In fact, it may not be compatible with its own mother's, even - meaning it can be a [i]danger[/i] to hers, or, hers can be a danger to it.

So...... as for us having Adam's blood, that's because we are ALL descended from Adam.....

The reason Christ's blood works to cleanse us from sin, is not because it is from the Holy Spirit, but because it is free from the death sentence which our blood bears.

Technically, blood is a connective tissue. (There are three others - bone, nerve and skin/muscle.) It carries oxygen (spirit) to every part of our body, or our body dies. Jesus' blood was free from the SPIRITUAL death which is in ours. That's why HIS blood can cleanse us from all sin, because LIFE overcomes death, in the same way as LIGHT overcomes darkness.

Genesis 3: 15
And I will put enmity
Between you and [u]the woman[/u],
And between [u]your seed and her Seed[/u];
[b]He[/b] shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel."

Lev 17:11
the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul.

An interesting question occurred to me when writing this post.

What does it mean 'your seed'...... when talking to the serpent?

 2006/6/2 15:04

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