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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Method of recovery

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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2778
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Method of recovery

I think that perhaps we have something here to learn and to which to adjust. We criticize and harshly judge the Church. We take a very adverse attitude to what we deem to be the faults, weakness, deflections, and even evils in the Church. We must search our hearts to see why we do so. Is it really our suffering love and sorrow for the Lord that motivates our spirit and demeanour? Is it redeeming love?
I was reading the quote above and thought about many of the posts we see here on SI that relate to "faults, weakness, deflections, and even evils in the Church." We seem to be pretty good at exposing these things but how do we deal with what is wrong?

What is God's method of recovery from times such as these in the Church?

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2006/5/12 10:57Profile

Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Method of recovery

What is God's method of recovery from times such as these in the Church?

Revival ... ?

Perhaps starting with just this;

We must search our hearts to see why we do so.

Mike Balog

 2006/5/12 11:03Profile

Joined: 2006/4/13
Posts: 129
Dallas, TX


What is God's method of recovery from times such as these in the Church?

Christ's 2nd coming? :-P


 2006/5/12 11:20Profile

 Re: Method of recovery

From the above quote

We criticize and harshly judge the Church. We take a very adverse attitude to what we deem to be the faults, weakness, deflections, and even evils in the Church.

1 Corinthians 11
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 For [b]if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world[/b].

Hebrews 12
4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Ron, I think the answers lies somewhere in our attitude to the ongoing process of correction we must endure if we are serious about showing the life of Jesus Christ to the world.

At the time when I committed myself to allowing my Father to reveal to me anything that was wrong, and I would address it, I did not have 'repentance' on my mind, nor sanctification.

Recently though, having been through some of this as a process for some years, I can honestly testify that the pain is transient. When one truly understands one's sins, repentance is only a breath away to those who would [i]please[/i] God.

This has something to do with understanding what Jesus was about in

Luke 9
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared [b]in glory, and spake of [u]his decease which he should accomplish[/u] at Jerusalem[/b].

51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.

When one understands one must set one's face steadfastly (or, [i]as a flint[/i]) to go to Jerusalem, the place of one's decease in Christ, there can be no turning back. We have to see our own appointment with death (Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:) as unavoidable, before we will embrace our appointment in Jerusalem honestly, and admire the gentleness with which God deals with our fears and our failings, in the most perfectly tender order.

He poured out His wrath on Jesus. We should have nothing to fear that would overwhelm us. However, perhaps it is a matter of having come to trust God's faithfulness, which requires an exercise of faith in the first place, which lays the ground within which growth in Him can flourish.

 2006/5/12 12:26

 Re: Method of recovery

I've been thinking about sanctification recently, in the light of the answers philologos gave in the thread on Instant Sanctification in the Other Speakers forum. He finished his last post with the suggestion that sanctification should more correctly be called 'glorification'.

2 Cor 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Perhaps part of your answer, Ron, lies in looking [i]to the Lord[/i], knowing that what is wrong in the Church is from the carnal mind, (which cannot please God - Rom 8:6, 7), and what is right in the Church flows from living and walking in the Spirit.

Going back to sanctification, (a word Tyndale had to invent) I think I've decided on my own definition in these terms: that sanctification occurs as I reinforce my original decision to set myself apart unto God (1 Cor 1:2 to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:) by each consecutive decision not to sin and the next decision not to sin (and so on). Every time I knowingly execute a sin, I (should) know I am molesting the progress of sanctification in my life.

Now I have judged myself worthy of death, the death of Christ is more precious to me, and, there seems to be very little to commend my love to Him if I do not make a serious effort to desist from sin. Furthermore, now having the power to overcome sin, I have no excuse not to (overcome).

Having said all the foregoing, I didn't always think like this! :-o It was all monumentally exercising to faith, to trust myself to this process in God's hands. And, without doubt, it is part of the responsibility of elders, to rebuke where necessary, for the good of the local body.

Revelation 2:1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write... 4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else

8 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write;... 14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. 15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16 Repent; or else

18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; ..... 22 Behold, I will ... except they repent of their deeds

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write;... thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will ...

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;... 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: 18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Interestingly, Sentry has started a thread on a similar topic today. I was going to refer him to Compton's first post (p1) of MikeB's Fruit Inspections thread at


which is just as relevant to this discussion.

Part of MC's point was, the character of Christ must be present in the leaders, for the appearance of gifts of the Spirit to be seen as trustworthy. Gifts [i]without[/i] the character of the Giver accompanying them, do not testify of a life which is abiding in the true Vine.

Iow, an elder who does not 'live the gospel' (Chaucer), and who is not an overcomer (as per the young men to whom John speaks in his first epistle, chapter 2) need not expect the respect of those who are looking for the 'irreproachable' component required by Paul in

1 Timothy 3:2 The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, orderly, given to hospitality, apt to teach; (ASV)

2 Timothy 2:15 be diligent to present thyself approved to God--a workman irreproachable, rightly dividing the word of the truth; (Young)

 2006/5/12 12:29

 Re: Method of recovery

Here is the link to the Instant Sanctification thread in Other Speakers, to which philologos (Ron Bailey) added two extracts from Oswald Chambers on the topic.


 2006/5/12 12:54

Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2778
Phoenix, Arizona USA


Perhaps part of your answer, Ron, lies in looking to the Lord...

Or perhaps, more to the point, it lies in a fresh revelation and unveiling of the Lord Jesus in all His glory. It seems that before we can deal with details about what is wrong and all the negative aspects, we need a clear view of the positive standard of the Lord. Isn't that how the book of Revelation begins?

In Christ,


Ron Halverson

 2006/5/12 17:25Profile

 Re: Method of Recovery

Has anyone been reading this thread? I think it holds answers, too.


 2006/5/12 17:39

Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791

 Re: Method of recovery

InTheLight wrote:

What is God's method of recovery from times such as these in the Church?

[b]Matthew 5:3[/b] [color=990000]Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.[/color]
Poor as I am bankruped in sin & all my wages are death: My debt is paid by His Blood & I am invited to live in His kingdom.
[b]:4[/b] [color=990000]Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.[/color]
I mourn for my deadness in spirit: Thank God that He is eteral life.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[b]:5[/b] [color=990000]Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.[/color]
I will not defend my self of my falts and I will accept His judgment for them: As I aquaint myself with Him I shall inherit the earth where the glorious New Jeruselem will rest.
[b]:6[/b] [color=990000]Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.[/color]
I am starving and am parched for I have no righteousness but dirty raggs: He has filled me by His Word.
[b]:7[/b] [color=990000]Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.[/color]
I forgive men their trespasses against me: Because Jesus forgave me of my own sin.
[b]:8[/b] [color=990000]Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.[/color]
I preseant myself utterly sincer befor my God and I will walk in the light as He is in the light: in that unaprochable light dwells God.
[b]:9[/b] [color=990000]Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.[/color]
I am called to bring men to God so that He will give them his peace: He calls me son.

 2006/5/13 22:42Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708


This is a pure picture of Christ.

Blessed: Who is blessed? Are we blessed because of us being poor in spirit, that we morn, are we comforted? Or do we hurt, are we meek, can we inherit the earth, do we hunger and thirst after righteousness, are we filled, are we pure in heart, are we merciful, do we obtain mercy, we cannot see God, are we peacemakers, are we children of God? Absolutely not. There is only one reason we are blessed and that is because of the Christ that is birthed in us. Without Christ we can attain nothing of the sermon on the mount. With Him we are everything He is, including son's of God.

All things are only accomplished, including the beautiful things of the sermon on the Mount, by the Christ in us the Hope of Glory.

Phl 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

Phl 2:21 For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

Phl 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things [but] loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them [but] dung, that I may win Christ,

Phl 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Col 1:16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him:

We are called in Christ Jesus that He might come forth from us that All mankind may see Him. Giving all to Him in all we do, allowing all we are sent, to see Christ. More and More of Him and less and less of me, this is how son's are made.

In Christ: Phillip


 2006/5/15 18:30Profile

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