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Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia


I feel everyone here on sermonindex knows what I am talking about. All they have to do is read. I am sorry you dont see that. This has brought nothing productive to anyone here on sermonindex. All this thread is, is used to attack one another. And I am not just talking about you.

Matt Kroelinger

 2006/5/29 12:26Profile


Then back off me because I feel I have gone out my way to draw out good discussion and all that seems to be accomplished is my being accused of heresy by someone who doesn't realize what the issues are.
I haven't accused, gotten angry, shouted in BIG GREEN letters and then call it a charade. Please redirect your comments. THanks


 2006/5/29 13:00

Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia


The way you guys go about debating is liken unto 2 little children arguing. You should have backed down from the beginning, and humbled yourself to see that debating him would not work, only cause division. Satan again has won.

we need to be united, not divided. I pray both of you guys take heed to this correction.

2 Timothy 2:25-26

25-with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps god may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth.

26- and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.


Matt Kroelinger

 2006/5/29 13:33Profile


Boombat posted:

"We need to be united, not divided."

Stever's response:

The only time that the Church will ever be "united" is when Jesus Christ comes to this earth to rule and reign with a rod of iron.

At the present time, there are tares among the wheat, meaning there are sinners among the saved, sitting side by side with us in the Sanctuary.

The Whole Council of God tells us that until that time we are to contend for the faith. We are to protect the flock from wolves that pretend to be sheep. Ormly is such a wolf.

God's Word requires Christian believers to CONTEND FOR THE FAITH. What exactly does that mean?

The Bible tells us in Jude 1:3-5 to CONTEND for the faith:
3. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly CONTEND for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jude 1:9 tells us that “9. Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.”

What is the definition of CONTEND in the Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary of the American Language?

CONTEND, v.i. [L., to stretch. Gr., See Tend, Tenet.]
1. To strive, or to strive against; to struggle in opposition.
Distress not the Moabites, nor contend with them in battle. Deuteronomy 2.
2. To strive; to use earnest efforts to obtain, or to defend and preserve.
You sit above, and see vain men below contend for what you only can bestow.
Ye should earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints. Jude 3.
3. To dispute earnestly; to strive in debate.
They that were of the circumcision contended with him. Acts 11. Job 9.
4. To REPROVE sharply; to chide; to strive to convince and reclaim.
Then contended I with the rulers. Nehemiah 13.
5.To strive in opposition; to punish.
The Lord God called to contend by fire. Amos 7.
6. To quarrel; to dispute fiercely; to wrangle. The parties contend about trifles.
To contend for, to strive to obtain; as, two competitors contend for the prize.
CONTEND, v.t. To dispute; to contest.
When Carthage shall contend the world with Rome.
This transitive use of contend is not strictly legitimate. The phrase is elliptical, for being understood after contend; but it is admissible in poetry.
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contend is also found in 55 definitions:
• altercate
• antagonize
• bandy
• battle
• bicker
• buffet
• camp-fight
• chide
• combat
• combatant
• con
• conflict
• contention
• contentious
• contentiousness
• contest
• controversy
• controvert
• cope
• deal
• debate
• differ
• dispute
• earnestly
• fall
• far
• fight
• grapple
• intercede
• open
CONTEND is not a gentle word. It is a word that describes a struggle in opposition, To strive to defend and preserve, to list just a few definitions.

When we have a person who says they are a Christian believer, yet presents false doctrine to the body of Christ we are instructed to contend for the faith.

Proverbs 9:8-9 tells us that if a wise man is rebuke, he will love you:

8. REPROVE not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. 9. Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser: teach a just man, and he will increase in learning.
Websters 1828 Dictionary gives us this understanding of “rebuke”:

REBU'KE, v.t. [See Pack and Impeach.]
1. To chide; to REPROVE; to reprehend for a fault; to check by reproof.
The proud he tam'd, the penitent he cheer'd, not to rebuke the rich offender fear'd.
Thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbor. Lev. 19.
2. To check or restrain.
The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan. Zech. 3. Is. 17.
3. To chasten; to punish; to afflict for correction.
O Lord, rebuke me not in thine anger. Ps. 6.
4. To check; to silence.
Master, rebuke thy disciples. Luke 19.
5. To check; to heal.
And he stood over her and rebuked the fever. Luke 4.
6. To restrain; to calm.
He arose and rebuked the winds and the sea. Matt. 8.

REBU'KE, n. 1. A chiding; reproof for faults; reprehension.
Why bear you these rebukes and answer not?
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rebuke is also found in 32 definitions:
• chasten
• check
• chide
• chiding
• come

DOCTRINE, n. [L., to teach.]
1. In a general sense, whatever is taught. Hence, a principle or position in any science; whatever is laid down as true by an instructor or master. The doctrines of the gospel are the principles or truths taught by Christ and his apostles. The doctrines of Plato are the principles which he taught. Hence a doctrine may be true or false; it may be a mere tenet or opinion.
2. The act of teaching.
He taught them many things by parables, and said to them in his doctrine. Mark 4.
3. Learning; knowledge.
Whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Isaiah 28.
4. The truths of the gospel in general.
That they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things. Titus 2.
5. Instruction and confirmation in the truths of the gospel. 2 Timothy 3.
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doctrine is also found in 180 definitions

REPROOF', n. [from REPROVE].

1. Blame expressed to the face; censure for a fault; reprehension.
Those best can bear reproof, who merit praise.
He that hateth reproof is brutish. Prov 12.
2. Blame cast; censure directed to a person.
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reproof is also found in 40 definitions:

• rebuke
• admonition
• censure
• check
• chide
• chiding
• corrector
• correption

When a brother in the Lord posts heresy, he must be rebuked. If he comeS forward with false doctrine, we must EXPOSE IT FOR WHAT IT IS-FALSE!

That is exactly what I did with Ormly. Did it offend you? I surely hope not. We are all called to be CHRISTIAN SOLDIERES, prepared to do battle for God's word, for God's Doctrine.

[b][color=0033FF]Proverbs 19:25 tells us “25. Smite a scorner, and the simple will beware: and REPROVE one that hath understanding, and he will understand knowledge.”-THIS APPLIES TO ORMLY!

Ephesians 5:8-16 tells us to REPROVE those who have fallen away:
8. For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: 9. (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;) 10. Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord. 11. And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather REPROVE them. 12. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. 13. But all things that are REPROVED are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light. 14. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. 15. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, 16. Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Many times I presented to Ormly the error of his ways by providing Scripture. His response? He never addressed my posts, line by line (that were all scripture that exposed his heresy). He came back with questions, and subterfuge, and games.

9.A man that is an HERETICK after the first and second admonition REJECT; 11. Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

ADMONI'TION, n. Gentle reproof; counseling against a fault; instruction in duties; caution; direction. Tit. 3. 1Cor. 10. In church discipline, public or private reproof to reclaim an offender; a step preliminary to excommunication.

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admonition is also found in 25 definitions:
• admonishment
• admonitive
• forewarning
• iterate
• reprove
• steel

[b][color=0033FF]We are all called to be Christian Soldiers, in a battle for the faith. We are not called to compromise God's Word, to compromise God's teaching so that we can all "get along". As Christian believers, we will all face Christ at the Bema Judgment and he will see through us with His eyes of fire. Everything that we have done for Him will give us reward, everything we have do for self will be burned before our eyes as wood, hay and stubble.[/color][/b]

God bless,


 2006/5/29 13:55



 2006/5/29 14:09

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