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You have answered it yourself, Ormly. You are indeed a false teacher that I pray Christ has mercy on your soul.

Where is the other part of your tag team--Linda? She usually "supports" whatever you post on this thread. Where is she??

God bless,


 2006/5/28 13:36



Stever wrote:
You have answered it yourself, Ormly. You are indeed a false teacher that I pray Christ has mercy on your soul.

Never mind my soul just answer the question I asked you refuse to answer. Were Anna, Simeon et al, righteous people in the sight of God? You seem to believe and wish everyone to believe that there were no righteous people God had regard for. That's blatantly false. There were good righteous folk, Jesus said there was. You want to argue with Him? This is not rocket science, Stever. Why did God choose Mary?

BTW Do you even know who these two were?


 2006/5/28 13:48


Ormly posted:

"Never mind my soul just answer the question I asked you refuse to answer. Were Anna, Simeon et al, righteous people in the sight of God? You seem to believe and wish everyone to believe that there were no righteous people God had regard for. That's blatantly false. There were good righteous folk, Jesus said there was.


Stever responds:

You continually take things out of context. Prove your assertion that anyone is righteous before God.

Prove it, no more words or demands. Prove you position WITH SCRIPTURE. The one proof text that you provided mentioned the "righteousness of the Scribes and Pharasees.

Matthew 5:20 tells us about their righteousness:
20. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.


You cannot prove it, and that is why you persist with this thread. You indeed are a false teacher.


Topics: Right'eousness


Topics: Justifica'tion

Text: a forensic term, opposed to condemnation. As regards its nature, it is the judicial act of God, by which he pardons all the sins of those who believe in Christ, and accounts, accepts, and treats them as righteous in the eye of the law, i.e., as conformed to all its demands. In addition to the pardon (q.v.) of sin, justification declares that all the claims of the law are satisfied in respect of the justified.

It is the act of a judge and not of a sovereign. The law is not relaxed or set aside, but is declared to be fulfilled in the strictest sense; and so the person justified is declared to be entitled to all the advantages and rewards arising from perfect obedience to the law (Rom. 5:1-10). It proceeds on the imputing or crediting to the believer by God himself of the perfect righteousness, active and passive, of his Representative and Surety, Jesus Christ (Rom. 10:3-9).

Justification is not the forgiveness of a man without righteousness, but a declaration that he possesses a righteousness which perfectly and for ever satisfies the law, namely, Christ's righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21; Rom. 4:6-8). The sole condition on which this righteousness is imputed or credited to the believer is faith in or on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Faith is called a "condition," not because it possesses any merit, but only because it is the instrument, the only instrument by which the soul appropriates or apprehends Christ and his righteousness (Rom. 1:17; 3:25, 26; 4:20, 22; Phil. 3: 8-11; Gal. 2:16).

The act of faith which thus secures our justification secures also at the same time our sanctification (q.v.); and thus the doctrine of justification by faith does not lead to licentiousness (Rom. 6:2-7). Good works, while not the ground, are the certain consequence of justification (6:14; 7:6). (See GALATIANS, EPISTLE TO.)

 2006/5/28 14:15

Joined: 2006/4/23
Posts: 101
West Sussex, England


Stever, Here I am. This is becoming ugly. I watch at what is happening and have not said much because of the argumentative attitude that comes across throughout much of this. I was new to the site when I first posed the question and I did not expect this. I found myself getting drawn into it and it was ruining my spiritual life and becoming time consuming. I made a decision not to participate any longer. I hope you both find peace and a way out of this arguing.

In His Love
Linda :-(


 2006/5/28 14:18Profile

 Re: Last one

To Ormly :

This charade is over as far as I am concerned. Whatever cult you belong to is of no interest to me. The doctrine that you have tried to present here is identical to that offered by Satan in the Garden of Eden- a little bit of the truth, laced with error, laced with poison.

If you notice, only two besides yourself (I consider you and Linda to be one and the same) that are posting to this thread is me and Logic.

When I look up your profile on sermonindex I find a ghost. No name, no personal email address, no testimony, nothing.

I hope you and “Linda” have fun posting to each other.

God bless,

Stever :-)

 2006/5/28 15:40


You may choose not to review these scriptures. I expect that. But let it be clear from me that you wilfully misrepresented what I have posted to imply something I'm NOT saying. But you asked for scriptures. I offer but a few here:

Hosea 14:9 (NASB)
Whoever is wise, let him understand these things; Whoever is discerning, let him know them.
For the ways of the Lord are right, And the righteous will walk in them, But transgressors will stumble in them.

Habakkuk 2:4 (NASB)
"Behold, as for the proud one,
His soul is not right within him;
But the righteous will live by his faith.

Malachi 3:18 (NASB)
So you will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves God and one who does not serve Him.

Matthew 5:45 (NASB)
in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Matthew 9:13 (NASB)
"But go and learn what this means, 'I desire COMPASSION, and not sacrifice,' for I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Matthew 10:41 (NASB)
"He who receives a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he who receives a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.

Matthew 13:17 (NASB)
"For truly I say to you, that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it; and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

Matthew 23:35 (NASB)
that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Luke 1:6 (NASB)
And they were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.

Luke 2:25 (NASB)
And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon; and this man was righteous and devout, looking for the consolation of Israel; and the Holy Spirit was upon him.

Luke 23:50 (NASB)
And behold, a man named Joseph, who was a member of the Council, a good and righteous man

Acts 10:22 (NASB)
And they said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews, was divinely directed by a holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear a message from you." (Who didn't know about Jesus)

1 Tim. 1:9 (NASB)
realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers

You need to make distinctions between a righteousness that God does and has in times past, honored, self-righteousness He never does and the "stamp" of unrighteousness placed upon all mankind, because of Adam, that mankind, on his own, cannot remove. (Someone outside himself was/is needed to remove that indelible stain of unrighteousness)
To Quote Paul quoting Psalms quoting David mixed with a little Isaiah is no way to arrive at what you conclude,i.e.,implying that Paul was stating that man could not do righteously; could not honor God. That's a false reading of his words. There are specifics, its called context, in what Paul was saying (Rom 3.10--)you are completely overlooking --- and based upon your borrowed approach to my remarks I don't believe you can be dissuaded. You'll have to try to sort those issues out on your own.

May I suggest putting aside your "borrowed" books and just stay with he Bible.

That's my last.

 2006/5/28 16:41

Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia


Right now, it doesnt look like any of you are showing any christian love for one another. If you need to correct, correct in love.

"He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

10He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. "

This doesnt lift anyone up by reading this, just tears down.

I Pray you both repent

How about you both read what the word says about loving one another.

Matt Kroelinger

 2006/5/29 0:42Profile


Words mean something ----Show me my lack of love and I will. If you can't then don't accuse me as being as Stever who has unlovingly accused me.



 2006/5/29 7:27

Joined: 2006/3/20
Posts: 235
fredericksburg, Virginia


You can't read very well either. Perhaps there is something in the water? Words do mean something. What part of my post didn't you understand? Perhaps re-reading it, a word at a time for understanding, would prove helpful.

I don't believe you read my post very well. Perhaps another go at it would help.

need I say more Ormly!!!

You still haven't answered the question. Is there something about it you don't understand?

This is not rocket science, Stever. Why did God choose Mary?

Matt Kroelinger

 2006/5/29 10:47Profile


need I say more Ormly!!!

Yes, you need to say more. How about the three !!!next to your kind remark? What do they represent?

Please show any loveless-ness in my remarks.

Must all such expression be deemed by the critics to be a lack of love? How about reviewing what provokes remarks you deem loveless. I think you will find your loveless-ness.

 2006/5/29 12:18

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