Stever posts as a follow-up to Mike:

I love the way the Bible reveals things to us. With our western minds we tend to expect God's Word to be presented in the way that we express our own ideas- in chronological order, with an Introduction, followed by the body of what we are discussing, and then the conclusion. In the Bible, God starts off with an introduction that is similar to a skeleton. The book that we are reading then follows with filling in the skeleton with the muscles, sinews, organs, and the skin. And, it is not revealed in chronological order, but rateher a bit here, and a bit there, until the entire thing He is discussing is revealed to us. Genesis Chapter one is an example of that. The entire Chapter of Genesis 1 is a description of the creation. Genesis Chapter 2 starts off with "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished and all the host of them." So, we realize that the description of the creation is finished in the first verse of Chapter 2. The ideal spot for Genesis 2:1 would actually be at the end of Chapter 1.


God's Word tells us in Revelation 20 that the Mark of the Beast that was received by those going to hell was either on their foreheads or on their hands. It also tells us that Jews and Gentiles that became Christian believers that went through the Tribulation, and were beheaded, and were on their way to rule and reign with Christ for 1,000 years did not receive this mark, nor worship the beast:

"4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."


In conclusion then, since those believers that went through the Tribulation, and enter the 1,000 year reign with him DID NOT RECEIVE HIS MARK, then anyone receiving it are on their way to hell and will be at the Great White Throne. This also tells me that those that accept the mark of the beast are unable to repent, since there is no description of this anywhere in Revelation, that refers to this specific Prophecy.

God bless,

Stever :-)

Fear that which is 666. Computer technology is advancing so rapidly that RFID chips will soon take the place of currency. Read the current edition of "Consumer Reports magazine" article on Privacy...RFID chips. Look up verachip or digital angel on the net. One must conclude that we are close to becoming society that will have the RFID chip on or in all merchandise. Digital Angel was touted as an implantable chip with your medical info etc. It would be good to chip ex-cons and prisoner, tracking them by gps. The company has backed off that use because of the negative publicity. It lingers in the shadows though so be ready. You see the handwriting on the wall. Credit cards will all soon have rfid chips you wave near a reader to complete a transaction. Cash will no longer be needed. Oh, and implanting the chip will be necessary for proof it is your chip,...and to track your movements and purchases. There is a likelyhood you will be forced to take the chip (MARK) or you don't buy. Scary? Not if you trust in the Lord. You know it is close when the governments tell their citizens that they need this for their own security from terrorists. You see people are willing to surrender freedoms for security. DO NOT take the sales pitch and condem your soul to hell. There will never be peace until the King of Kings, JESUS CHRIST returns.

Num 6 24-26
Gary

greetings saints
i have been following this discussion with interest and feel led to bring a couple of points up.

[b]5 And he had power to give life F20 unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive F21 a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. [/b]

Now the word says that all will be caused to take this mark irrespective of class, nationality etc. It seems to me that this is both a spiritual [i][b]and[/b][/i] physical mark. Spiritual in that those with it are tied to the beast and worship it, physical in that somehow it is used to buy and sell. could this mean those RFID chips, probably so, but it is clear to me that this mark has a dual purpose. not nation will be exempt from this influence whether named specifically in the word or not. China seems more likely to me to fall into this trap since it is a largely heathen nation (athiests, taoists etc) with a small number of Christians. how on earth an athiest government can tell believers how they are to worship is beyond me save to say the Lord allows it to be so.

bro Dohzman wrote:

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Farai Bamu

The following goes hand and hand with the subject matter. The U.S. is building an embassy in Iraq that consists of 21 buildings on 104 acres of land! It is a veritbale city, totally self contained with its own defense force

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12319798/

BAGHDAD, Iraq - The fortress-like compound rising beside the Tigris River here will be the largest of its kind in the world, the size of VATICAN CITY, with the population of a small town, its own defense force, self-contained power and water, and a precarious perch at the heart of Iraq’s turbulent future.

The new U.S. Embassy also seems as cloaked in secrecy as the ministate in Rome.

“We can’t talk about it. Security reasons,” Roberta Rossi, a spokeswoman at the current embassy, said when asked for information about the project.

A British tabloid even told readers the location was being kept secret — news that would surprise Baghdadis who for months have watched the forest of construction cranes at work across the winding Tigris, at the very center of their city and within easy mortar range of anti-U.S. forces in the capital, though fewer explode there these days.

The embassy complex — 21 buildings on 104 acres, according to a U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee report — is taking shape on riverside parkland in the fortified “Green Zone,” just east of al-Samoud, a former palace of Saddam Hussein’s, and across the road from the building where the ex-dictator is now on trial.

The Republican Palace, where U.S. Embassy functions are temporarily housed in cubicles among the chandelier-hung rooms, is less than a mile away in the 4-square-mile zone, an enclave of American and Iraqi government offices and lodgings ringed by miles of concrete barriers.

5,500 employees at the embassy

The 5,500 Americans and Iraqis working at the embassy, almost half listed as security, are far more numerous than at any other U.S. mission worldwide. They rarely venture out into the “Red Zone,” that is, violence-torn Iraq.

This huge American contingent at the center of power has drawn criticism.

“The presence of a massive U.S. embassy — by far the largest in the world — co-located in the Green Zone with the Iraqi government is seen by Iraqis as an indication of who actually exercises power in their country,” the International Crisis Group, a European-based research group, said in one of its periodic reports on Iraq.

State Department spokesman Justin Higgins defended the size of the embassy, old and new, saying it’s indicative of the work facing the United States here.

“It’s somewhat self-evident that there’s going to be a fairly sizable commitment to Iraq by the U.S. government in all forms for several years,” he said in Washington.

Higgins noted that large numbers of non-diplomats work at the mission — hundreds of military personnel and dozens of FBI agents, for example, along with representatives of the Agriculture, Commerce and other U.S. federal departments.

They sleep in hundreds of trailers or “containerized” quarters scattered around the Green Zone. But next year embassy staff will move into six apartment buildings in the new complex, which has been under construction since mid-2005 with a target completion date of June 2007.

Iraq’s interim government transferred the land to U.S. ownership in October 2004, under an agreement whose terms were not disclosed.
“Embassy Baghdad” will dwarf new U.S. embassies elsewhere, projects that typically cover 10 acres. The embassy’s 104 acres is six times larger than the United Nations compound in New York, and two-thirds the acreage of Washington’s National Mall.

Estimated cost of over $1 billion
Original cost estimates ranged over $1 billion, but Congress appropriated only $592 million in the emergency Iraq budget adopted last year. Most has gone to a Kuwait builder, First Kuwaiti Trading & Contracting, with the rest awarded to six contractors working on the project’s “classified” portion — the actual embassy offices.

Higgins declined to identify those builders, citing security reasons, but said five were American companies.

The designs aren’t publicly available, but the Senate report makes clear it will be a self-sufficient and “hardened” domain, to function in the midst of Baghdad power outages, water shortages and continuing turmoil.

It will have its own water wells, electricity plant and wastewater-treatment facility, “systems to allow 100 percent independence from city utilities,” says the report, the most authoritative open source on the embassy plans.

Besides two major diplomatic office buildings, homes for the ambassador and his deputy, and the apartment buildings for staff, the compound will offer a swimming pool, gym, commissary, food court and American Club, all housed in a recreation building.

Security, overseen by U.S. Marines, will be extraordinary: setbacks and perimeter no-go areas that will be especially deep, structures reinforced to 2.5-times the standard, and five high-security entrances, plus an emergency entrance-exit, the Senate report says.

Higgins said the work, under way on all parts of the project, is more than one-third complete.
© 2006 The Associated Press.
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This sends chills up and down my spine. How about yours? The time of the end is near.


God bless,

Stever :-)

The original post assumes that there is still a future end times, mark and anti-christ ahead of us.

What if it already happened in the past?

Matthew 16:28
"Truly I say to you, there are [u]some of those who are standing here who will not taste death[/u] until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Granted this is only one verse but its from Jesus Himself. So unless there are some original disciples still hanging around, I have to contend that all this end times stuff was fulfilled in AD 70 when God punished Israel for its sin and rejection of Christ.

TC&GB (take care & God bless),

Xtian

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Steve

bro Xitan
Christ didn't say anything about the mark of the beast, the 7 trumpets, seals or bowls which were reserved for the end to the disciples. John however received the revelation much later wherein the warnings of the mark of the beast are. if the judgements which are spoken of in the revelation have occurred, then we would be in heaven now coz the 1000 yr reign will have passed. these things have yet to occur. concerning the scripture you quoted, that is indeed something to chew on and seek the Lord's counsel that we may understand the meaning of it.

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Farai Bamu

Ironman, my comments in bold... :-)

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Steve

bro Xtian
the passages you brought up indeed speak of the end times, however Christ speaks to the disciples first of things which shall immediately happen, namely the destruction of the temple, the disciples being martyred etc.

from matthew chapt 24

[b]

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Farai Bamu

Just wanted to say I am going to reply back but work has kept me busy (we are trying to finish rehabbing a house this week). I hope to have one this weekend. Warning tho because it could be a long post.

What is most important tho is that Jesus offers salvation, strength and peace to those that repent and follow Him.

:-)

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Steve

bro Xtian

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Farai Bamu