sister D posted this from the sermon and i've used it as a check list to see if i've been accused of any of these;
Ego trips (yes - i'm asked often why i just can't go along with the program)
Emotionalism (yes - i've been told that i'm obsessed with God,
Signs/wonders/miracles (no - the kind of miracles many churches seek i don't see enough purity in the Body for such divine manifestations to display) .
Local church (no - my loyalty is to Christ first and to the dismay of many i detest denominationalism)
Legalism (yes - i'm told i'm pre-occupied with following rules - but really it's only His rules i'm overly concerned about, if that's possible)
Liberty cult (no - i think so called liberty is a huge part of our spiritual illness)
Perfectionism (yes - ok i admit that i think it's better to be to disciplined than not enough ... Pray for me for our Lord is still working on me with this)
I admit that i'm an extremist, just seems tho that these days i'm almost opposite of everything that most other saints i know are extremist for ....
This sermon would never make it with a lot of saints i know ..
People viewed Christ, Paul (mover of seditions, sect ringleader), and the prophets as extreme, too. How do I know? Well, they killed them.
If people think you go a little too far, your probably doing alright.
The proper balance is the balance of truth and practice and not taking one aspect of truth to the exclusion of others.
Wesley was surely labeled a legalist, and I would use his sermon title "Holiness is not Legalism" as a good reference.
_________________Diane
I believe neither Combat, nor Verwer are calling us to justify our extremism but to recognize our tendencies to stray off the straight and narrow by excluding certain truths, embracing only our favored doctrines, and then justifying our positions while turning our noses up at the ones on the other end of the pendulum. Eventfully our unbalanced doctrines go over the edge and are no longer Biblical. Diane
_________________Combat Chuck
letsgetbusy wrote:I think few go too far, but many don't go far enough.
It seems like we should take our individual sins more seriously considering that Paul thought he should "die daily."
Here's the article that was reffered to by somebody earlier, "[url=http://www.deerparkwashingtondisciples.net/believers/legalism.html]Holiness Is Not Legalism[/url]" by John WesleyI thought it was good! :-)
Its about the pendulum vs the plumb line. The plumb line is Gods perfect standard in all things. A plumb line doesnt swing, but a pendulum does. In the Old Testament, the plumb line referred to God's immovable, unchangeable standard for Israel. Living by this standard would protect them from harming themselves, and also keep them close to God. God declared, I will make justice the measuring line and righteousness the plumb line. sa 28:17 In other words, God measured the success of his people according to his fixed standards. Sadly, Israel got completely out of plumb. So God said, I am setting a plumb line among my people Israel; I will spare them no longer. Amos 7:7 Because they refused to center their lives on God's plumb line, they reaped the consequence and experienced tough times. When people dont rest in Christ, Gods plumb line, they may dedicate all their energy to seeking what they believe is the most right, most wise way in order to stay on top. Their minds become preoccupied with thoughts about their need to be right, and a craving to make others see and follow the "right" way. They want to push the pendulum to one side as far as they can - no matter what the cost to themselves or anyone else. Perhaps that is why King Solomon said, "Do not be overrighteous, neither be overwise - why destroy yourself?Do not be overwicked, and do not be a fool -why die before your time? It is good to grasp the one and not let go of the other.The man who fears God will avoid all extremes." Ecc. 7: 16 - 18The far side of the pendulum is an unstable place to be. Life will always feel insecure, filled with fear and mistrust. This is a foolish way to live. We end up making enemies of our friends, our neighbor, our brothers, our fellow worshippers. Relationships turn cold and distant. They even turn into court battles. This is too high a price to pay for our craving to remain on top. No wonder the apostle Paul said, Why not rather be wronged?" 1 Cor. 6:7 Diane
Sis D wrote;"I suppose we can make extremist mean a positive virtue like Jesus was an extremist. But I think we need to dress this word in its original context in Verwers message, rather then just extract it and then use it bare-naked. I feel we need to respect the spirit of Verwers message, and the burden that Combat Chuck is carrying. Some of the comments on the thread, to me, seem to suggest a tangent veering off from that. And in the process the punch of the message has been lost. And so has the burden." Yikes, i guess i did approach this from a more personal view than i should have ... i didn't mean to veer off and diminish Combat Chuck's burden or the punch of the message ... :-o Thanks sis D for setting me straight ... :-D Blessings in Christ,Bro R
Rahman wrote:
Yikes, i guess i did approach this from a more personal view than i should have ... i didn't mean to veer off and diminish Combat Chuck's burden or the punch of the message ...
brethrenit seems the balance required in the Faith is in recognizing the seasons. there is a time to war and a time to rest, a time to sow and reap and so on. i pray that in in the seeking of this balance that the quest doesn't degenrate to lukewarmness coz that is the worst thing to be. we should be full tilt for God at all times. i suppose for those who aren't full tilt that may appear to be extremism (this is being used in a different way than the original context of the word in this discussion) but the Lord took the matter of our salvation seriously enough to require a perfect sacrifice in Christ so we should take the Faith in all seriousness even unto death. balance is essential in working for God and this balance comes from following the leadings of the Lord's Holy Spirit, who knows and does only the will of God. there are times to work and times to rest and recouperate for the next work.i pray that in seeking balance we don't confuse that with and/or become lukewarm.
_________________Farai Bamu
Graftedbranc wrote:Quote:Good point... Maybe the question becomes, "Whose" 'balance'?Amen, one man's "balance" is another man's "extreem". Graftedbranch
Good point... Maybe the question becomes, "Whose" 'balance'?
_________________Bill
Hi all ...Our Lord has been ministering to me via this thread, especially out of sis D's post "the pendulum or the plumb line" ... It seems that Eccl. 7:16-18 is as untouched sermonwise as Rom. 9 & Luke 16: 1-13, but here are three that have been of benefit to me ... Especially the first one, in that He surely does have me at this time in "a painful learning process" ...A painful learning process - Ecclesiastes 7:15-29http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=&sermonID=42005163511The Way of Escape - Ecclesiastes 7:15-18http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=&sermonID=660418253(Through The Bible) Ecclesiastes 7-12 by Chuck Smith - Ecclesiastes7-12https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=6339 Blessings in Christ Jesus! :-D