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 Last Days Warning to both men & woman.

[b]Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of 'witchcraft', and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee ...


1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Isa 3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.

Jer 23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?
Jer 23:30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbor.
Jer 23:31 Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
Jer 23:32 Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.
Jer 23:33 And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What is the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD.
Jer 23:34 And as for the prophet, and the priest, and the people, that shall say, The burden of the LORD, I will even punish that man and his house.
Jer 23:35 Thus shall ye say every one to his neighbor, and every one to his brother, What hath the LORD answered? and, What hath the LORD spoken?
Jer 23:36 And the burden of the LORD shall ye mention no more: for every man's word shall be his burden; for ye have perverted the words of the living God, of the LORD of hosts our God. [/b]

Barnes Notes:
Rev 2:20 -
Notwithstanding, I have a few things against thee - Compare notes on Rev_2:4.
Because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel - Thou dost tolerate, or countenance her. Compare the notes on Rev_2:14. Who the individual here referred to by the name Jezebel was, is not known. It is by no means probable that this was her real name, but seems to have been given to her as expressive of her character and influence. Jezebel was the wife of Ahab; a woman of vast influence over her husband - an influence which was uniformly exerted for evil. She was a daughter of Ethbaal, king of Tyre and Sidon, and lived about 918 years before Christ. She was an idolater, and induced her weak husband not only to connive at her introducing the worship of her native idols, but to become an idolater himself, and to use all the means in his power to establish the worship of idols instead of the worship of the true God. She was highly gifted, persuasive, and artful; was resolute in the accomplishment of her purposes; ambitious of extending and perpetuating her power, and unscrupulous in the means which she employed to execute her designs. See 1Ki_16:31 ff.
The kind of character, therefore, which would be designated by the term as used here, would be that of a woman who was artful and persuasive in her manner; who was capable of exerting a wide influence over others; who had talents of a high order; who was a thorough advocate of error; who was unscrupulous in the means which she employed for accomplishing her ends; and the tendency of whose influence was to lead the people into the abominable practices of idolatry. The opinions which she held, and the practices into which she led others, appear to have been the same which are referred to in Rev_2:6 and Rev_2:14-15 of this chapter. The difference was, that the teacher in this case was a woman - a circumstance which by no means lessened the enormity of the offence; for, besides the fact that it was contrary to the whole genius of Christianity that a woman should be a public teacher, there was a special incongruity that she should be an advocate of such abominable opinions and practices. Every sentiment of our nature makes us feel that it is right to expect that if a woman teaches at all in a public manner, she should inculcate only what is true and holy - she should be an advocate of a pure life. We are shocked; we feel that there is a violation of every principle of our nature, and an insult done to our common humanity, if it is otherwise. We have in a manner become accustomed to the fact that man should be a teacher of pollution and error, so that we do not shrink from it with horror; we never can be reconciled to the fact that a woman should.
Which calleth herself a prophetess - Many persons set up the claim to be prophets in the times when the gospel was first preached, and it is not improbable that many females would lay claim to such a character, after the example of Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, etc.
To teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication - Compare Rev_2:14. Whether she herself practiced what she taught is not expressly affirmed, but seems to be implied in Rev_2:22. It is not often that persons teach these doctrines without practicing what they teach; and the fact that they desire and design to live in this manner will commonly account for the fact that they inculcate such views.

Vincent's Word Studies:
Jezebel
Used symbolically, but with reference to the notorious historic Jezebel. She was the daughter of Ethbaal, king of Sidon (1Ki_16:31), formerly a priest of Astarte, and who had made his way to the throne by the murder of his predecessor Pheles. Ahab's marriage with her was the first instance of a marriage with a heathen princess of a king of the northern kingdom of Israel. This alliance was a turning-point in the moral history of the kingdom. From the times of David and Solomon many treaties had been concluded between Phoenicia and Israel; but it was at the same time the special business of the kingdom of the ten tribes to restore the ancient rigidness of the nationality of Israel. Jezebel looked down with perverse pride upon a people whose religion she neither understood nor respected. Though the ten tribes had yielded to idolatry in the worship of the calves, the true God was still worshipped and the law of Moses acknowledged. From the time of Ahab's marriage the apostasy of Israel became more decided and deadly. She was “a woman in whom, with the reckless and licentious habits of an Oriental queen, were united the fiercest and sternest qualities inherent in the old Semitic race. Her husband, in whom generous and gentle feelings were not wanting, was yet of a weak and yielding character which soon made him a tool in her hands.... The wild license of her life and the magical fascination of her arts or her character became a proverb in the nation. Round her and from her, in different degrees of nearness, is evolved the awful drama of the most eventful crisis of this portion of the Israelite history” (Stanley, “Jewish Church”). She sought to exterminate the prophets of Jehovah (1Ki_18:13), and inaugurated the worship of Baal the Sun-God on a magnificent scale. Two sanctuaries were established, one for each of the great Phoenician deities, at each of the two new capitals of the kingdom, Samaria and Jezreel. The sanctuary of Astarte or Ashtaroth (the Phoenician Venus) at Jezreel was under Jezebel's special sanction, and there is reason to suppose that she ministered as a priestess in that licentious worship. Four hundred priests or prophets were attached to this sanctuary and were supported at her table. The sanctuary to Baal at Samaria was large enough to contain all the worshippers of the northern kingdom. Its staff consisted of four hundred and fifty priests, and the interior contained representations of the Sun-God on small pillars, while a large statue of the same deity was set up in front. At these sanctuaries Ahab in person offered sacrifices.
It is clear, at any rate, that Thyatira, like the Church of old, had sinned by her alliance with a corrupt faith and practice.
To teach and to seduce (διδάσκειν καὶ πλανᾶσθαι)
The best texts read καὶ διδάσκει and she teacheth and seduceth. So Rev. For seduceth see on err, Mar_12:24, and see on deceiver and error, Mat_27:63, Mat_27:64. The word πλανᾶν to seduce is found oftener in Revelation than elsewhere in the New Testament. It never means mere error as such, but fundamental departure from the truth.

Matthew Henry:
Rev 2:18-29 -
Even when the Lord knows the works of his people to be wrought in love, faith, zeal, and patience; yet if his eyes, which are as a flame of fire, observe them committing or allowing what is evil, he will rebuke, correct, or punish them. Here is praise of the ministry and people of Thyatira, by One who knew the principles from which they acted. They grew wiser and better. All Christians should earnestly desire that their last works may be their best works. Yet this church connived at some wicked seducers. God is known by the judgments he executes; and by this upon seducers, he shows his certain knowledge of the hearts of men, of their principles, designs, frame, and temper. Encouragement is given to those who kept themselves pure and undefiled. It is dangerous to despise the mystery of God, and as dangerous to receive the mysteries of Satan. Let us beware of the depths of Satan, of which those who know the least are the most happy. How tender Christ is of his faithful servants! He lays nothing upon his servants but what is for their good. There is promise of an ample reward to the persevering, victorious believer; also knowledge and wisdom, suitable to their power and dominion. Christ brings day with him into the soul, the light of grace and of glory, in the presence and enjoyment of him their Lord and Saviour. After every victory let us follow up our advantage against the enemy, that we may overcome and keep the works of Christ to the end.

(1.) These wicked seducers were compared to Jezebel, and called by her name. Jezebel was a persecutor of the prophets of the Lord, and a great patroness of idolaters and false prophets. The sin of these seducers was that they attempted to draw the servants of God into fornication, and to offer sacrifices to idols; they called themselves prophets, and so would claim a superior authority and regard to the ministers of the church. Two things aggravated the sin of these seducers, who, being one in their spirit and design, are spoken of as one person: - [1.] They made use of the name of God to oppose the truth of his doctrine and worship; this very much aggravated their sin. [2.] They abused the patience of God to harden themselves in their wickedness. God gave them space for repentance, but they repented not. Observe, First, Repentance is necessary to prevent a sinner's ruin. Secondly, Repentance requires time, a course of time, and time convenient; it is a great work, and a work of time. Thirdly, Where God gives space for repentance, he expects fruits meet for repentance. Fourthly, Where the space for repentance is lost, the sinner perishes with a double destruction.
(2.) Now why should the wickedness of this Jezebel be charged upon the church of Thyatira? Because that church suffered her to seduce the people of that city. But how could the church help it? They had not, as a church, civil power to banish or imprison her; but they had ministerial power to censure and to excommunicate her: and it is probable that neglecting to use the power they had made them sharers in her sin.
3. The punishment of this seducer, this Jezebel, Rev_2:22, Rev_2:23, in which is couched a prediction of the fall of Babylon. (1.) I will cast her into a bed, into a bed of pain, not of pleasure, into a bed of flames; and those who have sinned with her shall suffer with her; but this may yet be prevented by their repentance. (2.) I will kill her children with death; that is, the second death, which does the work effectually, and leaves no hope of future life, no resurrection for those that are killed by the second death, but only to shame and everlasting contempt.
4. The design of Christ in the destruction of these wicked seducers, and this was the instruction of others, especially of his churches: All the churches shall know that I am he that searcheth the reins and the hearts; and I will give to every one of you according to your works. God is known by the judgments that he executes; and, by this revenge taken upon seducers, he would make known, (1.) His infallible knowledge of the hearts of men, of their principles, designs, frame, and temper, their formality, their indifference, their secret inclinations to symbolize with idolaters. (2.) His impartial justice, in giving every one according to his work, that the name of Christians should be no protection, their churches should be no sanctuaries for sin and sinners.

5. The encouragement given to those who keep themselves pure and undefiled: But to you I say, and unto the rest, etc., Rev_2:24. Observe, (1.) What these seducers called their doctrines - depths, profound mysteries, amusing the people, and endeavouring to persuade them that they had a deeper insight into religion than their own ministers had attained to. (2.) What Christ called them - depths of Satan, Satanical delusions and devices, diabolical mysteries; for there is a mystery of iniquity, as well and the great mystery of godliness. It is a dangerous thing to despise the mystery of God, and it is as dangerous to receive the mysteries of Satan. (3.) How tender Christ is of his faithful servants: “I will lay upon you no other burden; but that which you have already hold fast till I come, Rev_2:24, Rev_2:25. I will not overburden your faith with any new mysteries, nor your consciences with any new laws. I only require your attention to what you have received. Hold that fast till I come, and I desire no more.” Christ is coming to put an end to all the temptations of his people; and, if they hold fast faith and a good conscience till he come, all the difficulty and danger will be over.

 2006/3/20 18:04
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re: Last Days Warning to both men & woman.

So are you saying that women should not teach or preach?


_________________
Melissa

 2006/3/22 22:54Profile









 Re:

Hi Melissa.

I believe Paul's statement to Timothy, about the "teaching and/or usurping authority over men", fer shur.

There's a fine line there. To "teach" is to have someone at your feet, in the custom and mental picture of it and the same with authority.
The person is "under you" when you are the Teacher or the Authority.

To share a Word from God or The Word God lays on you is not wrong at all. But it's the position of the two. One is under the other in those two Postitions, so that's where Scripture bears witness through-out, that that is not Scriptural to ever have a woman "over" a man.

That is why I added that one from Isaiah, because "woman ruling over you" is part of the Judgment on a Nation or people.

I've heard the example of Deborah given, but she rebuked the guy for asking her to do the job.

There are prophetess' in the old and new Testaments, but they speak a word and even that is to be tested by the other prophets, even if she were a man.

Deaconess' in the early church were there to minister Baptisms etc. etc. to woman, and others that needed personal care, like home health aides do and stuff.

None of this makes woman "less" a part of One Body ... but the Body does work better when the Head of every man is Christ and the men are heads in the Church as it functions.

If a man of God is off, yes, a woman may get a Word from God to give to him, but that's as far as it goes. He stands before God with that word from there out. She's delivered and her job is done there.

Preach just means to "proclaim" and is usually used with The Gospel ... and we're all called to proclaim or "publish" the Gospel ... but "teach" is another deeper thing that concerns a going into doctrines and that is why Paul compares Eve being the one being "deceived", because God has not set woman to set doctrine in the Church.

Tracing many sects and cults, we see that many were the fruit of woman. Not that men aren't blatant heretics too ... Ha. But God has not put woman over men, and I guess that's the main point of all of this.

Woman can work in a meek way to even help their husbands see a false teaching, but it's not in an authoritive sense in where you feel she's got some pants on in their house. (figuratively).

I saw the macho-woman belief come into our Church many years ago, and it was freaky.
You thought they could bench press more weight then their husbands. (Yes, dear. :-? ) Ha.

Anyhows ... did I answer what you meant ?

I brought it up because it is a last days judgment warning type thing and it almost ruined my home Church. Luckily my Pastor was a real sweetie but with discernment. I like that kind. :-D

 2006/3/22 23:28
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re:

Thanks Annie,
Yes, you answered my question. What about women teaching other women?


_________________
Melissa

 2006/3/24 16:57Profile









 Re:

Hey girlfriend,

If you stick with this lady, you'll never go wrong .... although she's retired now ... her voice sings on. I've considered her my personal mentor for heap big many moons :-) . Pray for her too, if ya wouldn't mind. :-D thanks !

http://www.elisabethelliot.org/

http://www.backtothebible.org/devotions/devotion.php/elliot

And her books, if ya ain't got none.

Love to you.
me again

 2006/3/24 17:46









 Re: Whoa ....

I shouldn't have used that word "mentor".

That would imply that my behavior or actions may in any way mirror this LADY.

No, I didn't in any way mean that.

She's my hero. I think that is what I should have said.

 2006/3/24 20:01
MSeaman
Member



Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan

 Re:

I like Elizabeth Elliot too. I will check out the links you gave me. Thanks, Annie.


_________________
Melissa

 2006/3/25 21:00Profile





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