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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Hell

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 Re:

Quote:
Nobody is "denying scripture" or calling Jesus a liar



Denying hell as Jesus described is denying scripture and calling Jesus a liar. No word games there. When scripture says "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels..." there isnt much left for interpretation. Thats not my "particular brand of hermeneutics" ... thats the plain language of scripture.

Sorry if I get under your skin, Jimbob. Truth does that sometimes.

Quote:
Do you claim infallabilty when it comes to all Biblical understanding?



Is that what you're "accusing" me of? ;-)

Quote:
BTW the doctrine of hell fire never saved anyone, that would be the doctrine of Christ.



You should listen the teachings of Ray Comfort sometime. (Available right here on SI)

Love ya, bro...

Krispy

 2006/3/21 9:17
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

2 Thessalonians 1
5All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power 10on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

Revelation 20:
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

The Lake of fire is real and it is everlasting and eternal. The lake of fire is what it sounds like. A lake that is nothing but fire. Jesus told the story of the rich man who was tormented by the flame. 2 Thess. tells us that those who do not obey the Gospel will be punished with everlasting destruction. Those whose names are not written in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. The same lake of fire that contains the Devil, the false prophet and the beast. (Rev 20:10) The lake of fire is eternal punishment, the Bible is very clear about this.

If I may borrow a quote from Ray Comfort:
If you believe that the God you serve is too nice to punish the wicked with everlasting damnation....then...your right. Your God would never do that. The problem is...your God doesn't exist, he is a figment of your imagination. This is called idolatry. It is denying the truth of God and exchanging it for a God you are comfortable with.

 2006/3/21 11:44Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
Denying hell as Jesus described is denying scripture and calling Jesus a liar. No word games there. When scripture says "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels..." there isnt much left for interpretation. Thats not my "particular brand of hermeneutics" ... thats the plain language of scripture.



Amen!
A problem that a lot of people have is that we get these ideas of who and what God is that is not based on scripture. Then when confronted with scripture that refutes our 'ideas' we try to make the scripture fit our idea instead of learning from the truth in the Bible.

This is a major reason why most people do not believe in the inerracny of the Bible. They just don't like what it says. As Adrian Rogers put it, "They don't have an intellectual problem with scripture, they have a moral problem with scripture'.

Now, let us be slow to accuse the translators of putting words into Jesus' mouth. If the Bible says 'Jesus said' then Jesus said!

 2006/3/21 12:00Profile
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Krispy and JaySaved, dear brothers,

You, as many people, are defining hell as the lake of fire. That is the common use of the word hell in the English language today. The question I have posed and you have not answered is where in scripture are the two words synonomous? Both are real but who made them the same thing?

Jeff


_________________
Jeff Smith

 2006/3/22 8:46Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

h2oboy wrote:
Krispy and JaySaved, dear brothers,

You, as many people, are defining hell as the lake of fire. That is the common use of the word hell in the English language today. The question I have posed and you have not answered is where in scripture are the two words synonomous? Both are real but who made them the same thing?

Jeff


Deu 32:22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of [b]hell fire[/b].

Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into [b]hell fire[/b].

Rev 20:14 And death and [b]hell were cast into the lake of fire[/b] This is the second death.

The last verse tell us that hell is sepret but then becomes the fire when it is cast.

 2006/3/22 9:11Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7449
Mississippi

 Re:

To those who dispute the question about the reality of hell being eternal:

Several scriptures were quoted on this thread dealing with hell; many of them had the adjective 'everlasting' or 'eternal.' My Strongs defines everlasting as 'for ever'.

Consider these verses:

44: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45: And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

The worm does not die -v. 44, 48. The last I looked, worms are easy to kill...have you never killed a worm? So what kind of a fire is this where the worm is not killed but still lives?

To the carnal person it would be 'nice' to believe hell is not eternal, that the unrepentant would burn up and be history. End of existance. Actually, I do want to believe that, but the Bible teaches otherwise so I am left with who do I believe? what my carnal nature wants to? or do I decide to believe what Jesus says in his Word? I choose to believe Jesus. And I would suppose once I get to heaven I will understabnd the wisdom of all this and agree with God in matters of how he dispersed with the wicked.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2006/3/22 9:51Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
ginnyrose wrote:
To those who dispute the question about the reality of hell being eternal:

Several scriptures were quoted on this thread dealing with hell; many of them had the adjective 'everlasting' or 'eternal.' My Strongs defines everlasting as 'for ever'.

Consider these verses:

44: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
45: And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
46: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
47: And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
48: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

The worm does not die -v. 44, 48. The last I looked, worms are easy to kill...have you never killed a worm? So what kind of a fire is this where the worm is not killed but still lives?

To the carnal person it would be 'nice' to believe hell is not eternal, that the unrepentant would burn up and be history. End of existance. Actually, I do want to believe that, but the Bible teaches otherwise so I am left with who do I believe? what my carnal nature wants to? or do I decide to believe what Jesus says in his Word? I choose to believe Jesus. And I would suppose once I get to heaven I will understabnd the wisdom of all this and agree with God in matters of how he dispersed with the wicked.
ginnyrose



We all know that the lake of fire is eternal, there is no argument there. there dispute is about the word hell. what is it? Is it a place of holding, or is it just 6 ft. under ground until the judgment at the end. after the judment we all know that there is the lake of fire.
Quote:
46: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Does anyone figure that the worm here is your concience, like a worm, it eats at you for all eternaty.

 2006/3/22 20:19Profile
vico
Member



Joined: 2005/5/25
Posts: 258


 Re:

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 2006/3/22 21:03Profile
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Logic,

Thank you for getting me back straight. I had studied the difference and if I had reviewed your original post I would not have phrased the question ignorantly.

The problem as you put it is simply the King James translation of the word Hades. It definitely is not a pleasant place for the departed souls of the unrighteous but it is not the lake of fire (hell). Those who are suffering in Hades, the ones not taken out by Jesus (the righteous), still have the lake of fire to look forward to.

Thanks again for the explanation.
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Smith

 2006/3/22 23:05Profile
kristi1
Member



Joined: 2006/2/10
Posts: 4


 Re:

Sheol or Hell is described in the story of Lazarus and the rich man. This place was the abode of the dead. It was divided into two areas with a great cavern in between. Lazarus was on one side with Abraham in Abraham's bosom and the rich man was in Sheol.

Luke 16:22-26
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom; the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lifted up his eyes; being in torments; and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime recievedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed; so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."

I have gotten the impression that Abraham's bosom is now empty and Jesus has taken the Old Testament saints to Heaven. It is my understanding that this is what is to be ment by the phrase "and he led captives in his train". I tried to find this phrase and could not. So, I don't know.

However, I do think that the above scripture would rule out the concept of the dead being in their coffins. This describes them as able to have physical desires and be able to communicate and move around in a physical place.

This place is distinct from the lake of fire because Revelation says that it will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Questions are good. We are to study to show ourselves approved. A workman who need not be ashamed.

 2006/3/27 0:29Profile





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