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 Re: Gate Beautiful... Salvation opportunity missed?

Quote:
[b]We have in our possession all that we could ever ask for in spiritual things[/b], but our eyes are on "self" constantly.

Hi Annie,

I agree completely with the sentence I've emboldened from your post. And, I 'hear' what you're saying in the next 'sentence'.

But, I'd appreciate your time to go back through this thread while it is still short, and find a few [u]quotes[/u] from the four of us, which [i]demonstrate[/i] that [u]we[/u] have our eyes on ourselves and not on God?

I ask this because I feel there is a link, missing in what you said... so that it doesn't connect to the foregoing discussion.

Maybe some of us don't believe the bold sentence. Maybe we do, but we don't know how to get it to work.

Either way, unless one offers [i]God[/i] permission to shine a light on any faulty thinking/reasoning/believing/living, then one is going to remain out of touch with the reality of 'in our possession all that we could ever ask for in spiritual things' which you are bang on the nail with, theologically speaking.

This thread may, therefore, be an opportunity for some [i]valid[/i] introspection [b]before God[/b] in our closets.

My main hope, though, was to draw us to consider that we are [u]not[/u] following Jesus's example.

We are following a tradition of men - a man-made doctrine - and [i]are[/i] we surprised that it doesn't yeild results? Whyever should we be?

 2006/3/26 7:42









 Re:

G'day,

I was surprised at your first question. ha.
Oh oh, you know me, once I start that sense of humor going. Fortunately we can't post our own Smilies here.

But now that I'm over the initial shock of it, let me say that, it's not my job. Ha.

What I really want to say is, my post was a "humankind" statement and not based on 'one or two person's inability to get their eyes off of self.'
I thought the link with two more posts with it, would explain "where my head's at", as they say over here.

It would be odd to say, there are those who do have their eyes on self, and mean that there are those who don't. That would be 'theologically' incorrect... because there is no such human.

That is human nature and to the degree we are out of "human nature" to that degree we are free to allow Him to work 'through' us.
Romans 8 speaks of walking in the Spirit ... but our hearts are deceptive, deceitful, and sneaky little critters and we cannot even know our 'own' motives, lest God Himself shine strong through revelation "why" we are saying, thinking, or doing All that we say, think or do.

To walk 100% in the Spirit 24/7 would be to be [u]just like Him[/u] ... so I can't possibly believe that any on this entire forum is "there yet", nor ever will be. We won't be "like" Him until we see Him, but that is still, what we Strive for .... to walk in the Spirit is synonomous of having our eyes off of ourselves.

But again to warn, our hearts are deceitful and we do not know 'why' we do or think what we do.

As your thread progressed ... the topic was changing somewhat to "us" and our ability to "heal" etc.

That is what provoked my reply, as there is only one way to 'get there' and that is to be as 100% Others minded, as much as humanly possible.

No one knows their "motives" for all that they think, say or do 100% of the time .... and at this point, I believe that was a slack answer ... I'd prefer to change that, because our stand should be "no confidence in the flesh" At All and say ... we Seldom know. The "world" calls it a subconscious, but The Lord does not.

We all should be "theologically correct" on this, as it is His Image that we are striving toward. No one can go beyond the "theologically correct" only part and "do it" 24/7 ... if that were so, Paul and Barnabus would have never argued over John Mark and if we believe we have 'attained', then we are better than Paul.

[u]Valid[/u] introspection is only known to God, when it is actually possible to the human to do such, because even our 'introspection' is tainted with flesh.
Hudson Taylor in his old age said, that even his greatest prayers were tainted with flesh ... so it is ... until we leave these earthly bodies and are in His presence and even then, we will not [b]be Him[/b] but will be "like" Him.
The souls under the Alter in Rev. 6 were crying out for revenge. Perfect, Hmmm, I don't know how that can be seen. If they had the Complete mind of Christ, even in their Heavenly setting, would they 'need' to ask ? Or if they were so much like Him that they knew what He knows, they wouldn't need to 'ask' anything.

We're not to "follow Jesus' example" ... that is not quite how we'd read Romans 8 etc. on "walking in the Spirit".

You said:
"Maybe some of us don't believe the bold sentence. Maybe we do, but we don't know how to get it to work."

Again, the reason for my post ... trying to give the answer to this, as I saw the desire for this in the posts, which is what most people who Love Jesus desire.

And again, being "others minded" to the fullest extent, sacrificial degree, etc. as HE was.
'That' we CAN control to a better degree than someother "Dying to Self Method".

God honors even just our thought, that we want to be others minded as He was.
He was, 24/7 and that is the only thing that makes us different than Him now.

To think that we "know" Why we are in complete control of ourselves without some hidden motive, would be an incorrect estimation of our state.
But one does not get their eyes off of themselves by keeping their eyes on themselves in 'introspection' - Paul said, he didn't even judge himself.

Do we really know when we are ministering for self ? Only God in His mercy can show us when we are doing that. If we think there is no tinge of flesh (self) in our posts, actions, etc., then we are self-deceived.

Still the answer is, is to be others minded. If our "intent" is so ... then God will make up the difference and be there to show when there is a mix of flesh and spirit.
But even when we know that His Spirit is operating out of us in some out of the natural realm way .... even then we are tainted with flesh (self) ... if not, we would BE Him.

"No confidence in the flesh" ... despite what exploits we are or think we are performing.

The Lord is waiting for us to get our eyes off of self and that 'may' be why He can use the foolish and weak as He does or even children ... they are silly enough to believe that He works that way. Their faith level is higher and clearer because "self" has not hindered their faith.

We only lose faith when our eyes are back on self-preservation of some sort or another.
As Peter walked on water but a while.

I hear what you are 'saying' too and am doing my best to show, that he who has confidence in his own flesh is bound to fall ... though The Good Shepherd will pick him back up and brush the sand off and help - if we're open - to get us back on track. Or we can sit there and feel sorry for ourselves that we didn't present so beautifully ... again, that would be 'self-consumed thoughts'.

And around and around it goes. When we are ready to appear the 'fool' For others ... then maybe we're on the run-way at least.

I'm sure I didn't answer what you asked ... but ask on and I'll do my human best to answer.

Love and hug.
Annie



 2006/3/26 13:07









 Re: Gate Beautiful ... Salvation opportunity missed?


Dear Annie,

Thanks for you lengthy reply, which is most elucidating, mainly because of the assumptions you make about what and how other people think, and, what you think they should be thinking to be 'right' in the logic within which you have worked out your own thinking.

Now, don't assume, please, that I have anything against your thinking. It's just that you can't superimpose it on mine or anyone else's as if it is the template by which our processing of the Lord's life in us can be assessed.

All afternoon my line has been dropping out, and reconnecting, so I am running out of time very swiftly as I have not been able to get much done and I can't answer in full right now, therefore.

I hope that those who are online later and overnight may pick up on some of what you have said, to move the discussion further forward, and I will respond properly. It is likely I won't pick up everything which I didn't quite agree, but probably that's a good thing for both of us.

I will leave you with one specific comment.

Quote:
and [b]our[/b] ability to "heal"

I would like quote to back up this, please? Because for myself... I am sure it [u]the Lord who heals[/u], not the believer, although I know the New Testament says that 'He [u]gave THEM[/u] power to ...'

I think this has led to a lot of confusion in the minds of Christians, because such power would be a real hot potato :-P and I don't believe a Christian can use it [i]properly[/i] unless they are well and truly abiding in the Vine. That's the deal and that's the challenge.

Possible?

 2006/3/26 13:37









 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Dear Annie,

Thanks for you lengthy reply, which is most elucidating, mainly because of the assumptions you make about what and how other people think, and, what you think they should be thinking to be 'right' in the logic within which you have worked out your own thinking.

Now, don't assume, please, that I have anything against your thinking. It's just that you can't superimpose it on mine or anyone else's as if it is the template by which our processing of the Lord's life in us can be assessed.

All afternoon my line has been dropping out, and reconnecting, so I am running out of time very swiftly as I have not been able to get much done and I can't answer in full right now, therefore.

I hope that those who are online later and overnight may pick up on some of what you have said, to move the discussion further forward, and I will respond properly. It is likely I won't pick up everything which I didn't quite agree, but probably that's a good thing for both of us.

I will leave you with one specific comment.

Quote:
and [b]our[/b] ability to "heal"

I would like quote to back up this, please? Because for myself... I am sure it [u]the Lord who heals[/u], not the believer, although I know the New Testament says that 'He [u]gave THEM[/u] power to ...'

I think this has led to a lot of confusion in the minds of Christians, because such power would be a real hot potato :-P and I don't believe a Christian can use it [i]properly[/i] unless they are well and truly abiding in the Vine. That's the deal and that's the challenge.

Possible?




Sister, it's no matter what I or you 'think' ... it is "What is Written" that matters here and if you go beyond or subtract from Scripture, then you are off.

I will pray for your connection so you can stay on line.

We will both be back with Scripture to back up our stands ... I pray.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall 'they' cast out devils; 'they' shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 'They' shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; 'they' shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Annie

 2006/3/26 13:57









 Re:

It is the LORD Who heals. I think you know that I knew that. But nevertheless ... post on sis.

My question back. You said "use [b]it[/b] properly" .... what "it" are we discussing here ?

 2006/3/26 14:03
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: roadsigns

Quote:
The signs and wonders are but a road sign (a giant road sign pointing to God and away from ourselves.



I couldn't pass this one up. It is a brilliant statement, and a reminder to look further down the road and not get fixated on the sign. (ooo.. that hits close to home)

so.... maybe it's time to move on in the discussion...

Dorcas and MeAgain.... I'm not sure I follow all the ins and outs of your dialgue. But it does remind me that there are often no neat ways to unravel all the crossed wires in our brains and our communication channels. That is just another reminder that we are not neat and tidy people. Sometimes all that we can do is bring our focus back to the roadsigns, see where they are pointing and then move on.
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/3/26 14:37Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: the blessing or the blesser

Quote:
it is human nature to become preoccupied with the process.


This is always a temptation in our sophisticated society that wants to figure out everything in order to have some measure of control. Is that not humanism? Or is it a reflection of an inate desire to be God (or, as gods) - the very temptation that Eve received.

Surely we can acccept that what is a glorious miracle in the life of one person, may be an idol to another person, or may even become an idol later to the one who received it.

Our God has always been a risk-taker. He pours out blessings on people only to find out that they begin worshipping the blessing and walk away from the blesser. That's been going on since the beginning. And I believe it is also the risk that Jesus took - even in healing the begger.

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/3/26 14:50Profile









 Re:

We ain't neat and tidy Diane but His Word is. :-D

WOW, is it ever ! Thank God HE knows what on earth and Heaven, He's talking about, or the whole universe would fall apart. (If 'we' were in control -- haaaa :)

Getting somewhat silly again. Excuse please.

Annie

 2006/3/26 14:52
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: His Word... tidy??

Quote:
We ain't neat and tidy Diane but His Word is.


Well, his Word may be neat and tidy to Him, but it sure isn't from my side of the clouds. Now if God had only asked me to help him organize his Word, I sure would have done it in a far better... But then, there would be nothing to discuss here.

Just kidding!
Okay, so my 1000th post is not particularily intelligent.

As I say... we're not neat and tidy...

Now back to the roadsigns: God's glorious manifestation to humanity...

Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/3/26 15:08Profile









 Re:

"God's glorious manifestation to humanity..."

Yeah, HIS WORD. :-D

 2006/3/26 15:53





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