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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : He knows the Plans He has for you!

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 Re: He knows the Plans He has for you!

Jeff, thank you for the testimony about how your grandmother and grandfather's prayers have been answered. May you all continue to believe, right through till the end.

I recognise myself in your description of how you responded to the Lord's revelations to you, and I confess your exhortation was the word of God me, which I have taken on board afresh... because I have been there in the past.

But I needed to hear other things too, and it seems 'today is the day of salvation' in that He has spoken to me yesterday and today as well - all in part-answer to the same question. Amen. There may be more. I'm listening.

Quote:
By the way be careful what you tell God you will not be willing to do.

I know about this one, and I'd say He has been very gracious to me, in bringing me to a place where I could [i]revoke[/i] what was not an ultimatum from me to God (FAR from it.) but, was indeed a very heartfelt plea to be preserved from certain situations, which He, in His immense kindness, did not over-rule.

Also, I am very careful not to use the word 'never' about anything over which I have no control... such as the practical outworking of remaining in (or getting into) the centre of His will.

 2006/3/23 10:04









 Re:

Hi Jeff
What "no grandchildren in the kingdom ," means is that each person must be born-again, you cannot go to heaven on your parents or granddparents faith. While your stroy is wonderful, it is not typical, an anecdote perhaps.

Do I believe that six year olds come to Christ? No. They are to young to understand. I do believe there is an age of accountability and that all children go to heaven if they die.

Where would you draw the line Jeff 3Year old? 2 Year old? Its only been a few hundred years since the reformation, but the Protestant church is going down the ame road as the Catholic church. If the Lord tarries another hundred years, the Protesting church will be baptizing babies. A young child is merely going along with his parents. When the age of accountability comes, then they will have to choose to to surrender their lives to Jesus or not. The tens of thousands of "recommitments," in this country is almost certainly people really coming to Christ for the first time.

Even when parents see their young adults, (usually college, but not always) sleeping around , drinking and looking exactly like the world, the glean some false comfort by telling themselves that their chid is a Christian because they gave their hearts to the Lord when they were four. There is a reason that the Word says "Do not be fooled, those who do these things will not inherit the kingdom. The reason is there is a great propensity for being fooled, that is why we are warned.

I speak from experience by the way. I "gave my heart to the Lord," when I was nine. I liked the things of God, and I followed my mothers lead. Yet when I became a teenager I went "into the world," and became a drunkard, a drug addict, and a womanizer, got a girl pregant and was married at 17 and then continued to all those things. I gave my heart to the Lord when I was 26 and was saved.

One last point. Are there exceptions? Yes. There are some people who have had the call of God on their life from very young, glory to God. They are rare, and they are few and far between. ...............Frank

 2006/3/23 19:08
lastblast
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Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

appolus,

Thank you so much for sharing that testimony----yours AND Susan's. I can relate much to both of your testimonies as I came to faith in my 20's after MUCH worldly living. Soon after my conversion, I could look back on my life and see how the Lord's hands were on me----even in the midst of all the sin I was involved in. The Lord is surely full of mercy~!

You are extremely blessed to be able to be a part of what the Lord was doing and be a VESSEL for His purposes. Many who have touched a person's life for Christ's sake are unaware of how their witness CHANGED and drew others to Christ-----because the conversions of such happen years after the 'seed' has been sown.

Many people will be rejoicing I believe in that day----the day when all of Christ's are gathered together. Then we will be able to see ALL who we have impacted(and didn't even know it) as well as finally being able to find the ones who impacted us who didn't get to see the results of their witness in our lives. I myself can't wait to see a man named Felix who witnessed to me many, many times while I was in the AirForce. I'm sure he will be thrilled on that day to know his witnessing to me did indeed produce fruit-----changing a wayward girl's eternal destiny.........Blessings in Him, Cindy


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Cindy

 2006/3/23 20:07Profile
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Hi Frank,

So what age can a child come to know Jesus?

Jeff


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Jeff Smith

 2006/3/24 19:10Profile
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Hi Frank,

So what age can a child come to know Jesus?

Jeff


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Jeff Smith

 2006/3/24 19:10Profile









 Re:

Well Jeff
As I said, I believe that no child goes to hell, that all children are innocent so the question is moot. I believe there is an age of accountability and that all young adults should be encouraged to surrender their whole lives to Jesus. This age of accountability will vary from child to child but the Lord knows. Much of the confusion on campuses from young "Christian ," students is that they are sleeping around, drinking, doing everything that the world is doing but their parents are telling them that they made a "confession," when they were four, therefore they should be living the "christian life." Which of course they cannot because they have never met Jesus personally...........Frank

 2006/3/24 22:37
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

Hi Frank,

If all children are innocent what would be the purpose of this command? If the rebellious son is stoned and dies does he go to Heaven?

Deut 21:18-21

18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, that will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and, though they chasten him, will not hearken unto them;

19 then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;

20 and they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.

21 And all the men of his city shall stone him to death with stones: so shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
ASV

Jeff


_________________
Jeff Smith

 2006/3/25 8:09Profile









 Re: He knows the Plans He has for you

Hi Frank,

You have a very strong testimony, and I am not calling any question upon it, but there is one thing you have not mentioned - and possibly, you have not thought of your own life this way. You said you gave your life to Jesus when you were 9. I don't have the post where you mentioned this, immediately open, so I may have misquoted you - not my intention - I just want to remind you you'd mentioned that age. You didn't say if this commitment to God was because of Confirmation under the Roman Catholic discipline, of if you'd been evangelised by a non-Catholic, at that age.

I hear all that you said about the way your life progressed, and how you attribute it to not knowing the Lord for yourself. Where am I going with this? Well, here.... that God knew you and chose you from before the foundation of the world, in Himself. He always intended you to come to saving faith. All those years after you made that first move towards Him as a 9yo, the Father was drawing you. That's one of the reasons you were able to be aware of the gulf between you and Him, which needed to be closed by your active step of faith, eventually.

I, too, gave my life to Jesus when I was VERY small. This was within the context of being in a Protestant Christian family - maternal grandfather a preacher/teacher/writer/evangelist, father a true believer and elder in his local congregation.... but, my mother was not a believer and lived actively as an idolatress. That did not prevent God from keeping His Hand on my life, and although I nearly lost my mind through resisting sin, He had a PLAN for my salvation, which He has been outworking faithfully since I finally asked His help again, to bring my life into line with His will, when I was 19.

When you say 'I believe that no child goes to hell, that all children are innocent'... this is a very dangerous blanket to throw over them. I was able to compute guilt when I was 3. I can't tell you the quality of that guilt, because my mother had been abusing me, but, I know that the term 'age of accountability' can easily be reduced to a legal statement. [b]Whereas God sees the heart[/b]. Heathens will be judged on whether they obeyed what their consciences tell/told them (Rom 2:15,16)

Imho, it is an oversimplification of what is going on in a life, simply to reject the possibility of a child of 6 (who has reached the age of reason) being able meanifully to give his life to Jesus, just as it is to suggest that all children go to heaven. Of course parents want to think like this, but at what age do you say a child who kills another child, was absolved by the death of Jesus, or [i]knows[/i] EDIT CORRECTION 'knows' to [i][u]doesn't know[/u][/i] EDIT end; [u]that what they are doing IS WRONG[/u]? I don't think we can just take it upon ourselves to stand in God's shoes like that.

 2006/3/25 8:53









 Re:

Hi Dorcas
I wrote in a reply to Jeff "This age of accountability will vary from child to child but the Lord knows."

To answer some specific questions. My father was a non-practising Catholic like most men in the Catholic working class, but he made sure his children went to mass. Obvioulsy I also had a Catholic education. My mother became a born-again Christian so it was this that prompted me at the age of nine to make a confession of faith. Yet, as we know from the sower and the seed that many recieve the word with gladness, but not all seed come to fruition. I do agree that the hand of the Lord was on me, even in the midst of my wicked life, I know that the Lord saved my physical life on more than one occasion. Yet here is the rub, if I had have died in that position, I have no doubt that I was hell bound. Making Jesus the Lord of my life at the age of 26 I was finally justified, saved, a new heart and a transformation.

I also agree with what you said about blanket statements, they are never very wise, unless we have scripture to back us up. In this particular subject, we do not. The scripture is silent on the subject. One could possibly make an argument that when scripture talks about "household salvation," that this included children, but that would be assumptive, an argument from silence.

The only examples we have in the new testement of people being saved are adults. The notion that children understand what it means to surrender your life, to give it up, to make Jesus the Lord of their lives, is not realistic. Every muslim child will believe what their parents will tell them. But when they are able to understand, then they can make their own descision on what is the truth and what is not. Childrn are innocent and accept blindly whatever their parents tell them.

There is also a reason why Catholics who are born again reject their first baptism, the reason being that their parents made that descision for them and now, having made their own descision to make Jesus the lord of their lives and to surrender their lives to Jesus, they get baptized, this time by their own choice.

So, if you are raised a Baptist, a Catholic, a Pentecostal, a muslim, whatever,. and you blindly follow your parents lead, there will come a time when you have to make your own descision, one cannot go to heaven on their parents faith. It is an individual choice made by minds that are able to understand what it is that is required of them. I have a mentally handicapped child who has no way of understanding the Gospel and what the Father wants from humanity, I have no problem making the blanket statement that all mentally handicapped people go to heaven. I base this on the attributes of a God of Justice.

Finally, I know of people who were raised in churches, came forward and signed on the dotted line, or "prayed the prayer," or "knelt at the alter," and then went on and became murderers and rapists. Would anyone seriously argue that because these people made confessions of faith as children that they are just confused Christians?

So, bottom line, its not what a person, child or otherwise says, its how they live their life, the evidence will be in the fruit. We will know them by their love for one another. I n the parrable of the two brothers, Jesus tells us that one agreed to work in the field, the other said no. The one who agreed did not follow through, the one who said no, repented and went and did what he was asked to do. Jesus asks the pharissees, which one of these did the will of their father, which one of these are saved. Bottom line, words are cheap, actions speak louder...........Frank

 2006/3/25 9:57









 Re:

Hi Jeff
I am really not sure why you would use OT civil law in a debate on New Testment, New Covenant Christianity. First of, we can assume that since the son is a drunkard, that he is not a child but a young man. Secondly, I know that your not saying that we should be stoning prostitues, or exacting revenge, getting an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, so I really am not understanding your point, perhaps you could clarify.........Frank

 2006/3/25 10:03





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