mountains of Pa.
Is that something! thanks Gary-e, just that some body asked me this question,and wanted to know best way on how to answer it.thanks again :-)
| 2006/3/18 23:52||Profile|
| Re: Driftwood|
Very good answer GaryE, that is probably the only answer that fits this.
People that don't know the LORD often ask this question. It's a question that most who ask it are not interested in Jesus Christ (I am talking about the world)
When someone asks me who doesn't know the LORD, I generally walk away. I have come to learn that this question is a thought from Satan to trip up the Christian, to get him into an arguement. And I have seen this happen amongst my brothers, because each one has an idea as to who what and where. It's the same thing in debating over the Godhead, purely a waste of time and energy.
It never does anything but sway people from one camp to another, most believers are like waves of the sea, back and forth. And finally frothing at the mouth on the shore because they received something that wasn't of God. And believe me, I am sometimes right in the middle of that ocean, reaching up to the highest of waves, riding this wave and that. It's only the seasoned ones who have done it all, who become like drift wood, floating life's seas, whether they go up or down, they have no worries. Whatever continent they find themselves on they go without a care.
| 2006/3/19 8:14|
Are the 'seasoned ones' 'driftwood' or are they people who by faith walk on the water with Jesus?
33 These things have I spoken unto you, that in me ye may have peace. In the world ye have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. ASV
1 John 5:4
4 For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world , (even) our faith. ASV
| 2006/3/19 8:52||Profile|
Whatever you choose, the driftwood represents to me that which is dead. That which is walking on the water is Christ.
These are my metaphors, choose whatever you like to describe your death and your resurrection in Christ Jesus.
| 2006/3/19 13:28|
mountains of Pa.
i know some, that believe's that adam was created on the 8th day.and man kind was created on the 6 day.and in some way this makes a little sence because jewish male are circumcised on the 8th day also,
| 2006/3/19 14:11||Profile|
Adam was clearly the first man according to the Scriptures:
1 Cor 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul"
I would say that Adam and Eve were having many, many kids immediately after Cain and Abel that were not recorded in the geneologies. These would have a reason to kill Cain as he had killed Abel, who was their brother, also.
| 2006/3/21 21:45||Profile|
Genesis 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
| 2006/3/23 4:17||Profile|
| Re: Where did cain get a wife?|
Genesis 4:14 says (cain is speaking to God)"you have driven me out this day from the face of the ground: I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive anda vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me."
The fact that Cain is worried about this says that their were other people on the earth at that time. All of whom were descendants from Adam and Eve. In the footnotes of the Amplified of Genesis 4:17, it says: C.H. Dodd (cited by Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with A Commentary) shows that it would have been possible for Adam and Eve, in the more than 100 years he estimates may have elapsed since their union, to have had over 32,000 descendants at the time Cain went to Nod, all of them having sprung from Cain and Abel, who married their sisters.
God told Adam and Eve to Multiply, since they were the only two people at the time, their children would have had to marry each other to fulfill this command.
Most unbelievers who ask this don't want to know, they just want to try to prove that the Bible isn't true. Which of course we know is impossible!
| 2006/3/23 10:20||Profile|
I like the freedom in your thinking....how about going the next step in the thought process?
some may have seen this in another post but it is along the same line of questioning.
nothing i can prove---but can it be proved wrong?
THE QUESTION OF PRE-FALL CHILDREN
Is it biblical that Adam and Eve bore children prior to the Cain and Abel listed after the fall of man? This is the question to be explored, looked at non-traditionally and set before the reader in a way which brings glory to the Lord even as it challenges the common thought of the day. Some key thoughts in opening the possibility of a pre-fall race of man are as follows. God made man and woman on the 6th day and told them to be fruitful and multiply, the time period between this event and the fall (as defined by the eating of the fruit) is not recorded. Now you have a situation because of the fall God places a curse upon women to bear children from this point on in pain and suffering, impressing upon a critical readers mind that there was a time of birthing without pain. Consider also the fact that Cain assumed as the firstborn of Adam and Eve (though not biblically defined as such), had sexual relations with his wife and at that time was building a city which he named after his first born Enoch
who exactly comprised this city he was building. To the above concepts one must think of the Nephilum (giants), the time of Lucifers fall from Heaven, and the creation of time itself as known within the human paradigm. By no means will this be comprehensive in its exegesis on the subject but rather hopes to provoke in the reader a mindset that allows the God of all creation to burst out of the confines humans hold Him in with their finite thinking.
On the 6th day of Creation
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which us upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherin there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw everything that he had made, and, behold it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1: 27-31, KJV, 1850 revision) This text is weighty in that it opens questions that should be looked at specifically as they correlate to the creation detailed in chapter two. Upon reading chapter two it can be surmised that God made the animals, made the Adam and charged him with naming the animals, then put man to sleep and made Eve from Adam, and blessed them and told them to reproduce, on the sixth day. The traditional retelling of the creation story follows along this line: God created everything over the first five days, the sixth day God created man and over a period of time Adam named the animals after which God found that it was not good for man to be alone so He put him to sleep and created Eve from Adam. The critical point overlooked is the fact that the Bible states Adam and eve were created on the same sixth day and that all the animals were named prior to Eves creation. One must think of the time involved for Adam to name the wondrous creatures God had made even within the perfected state of his being. Can we so unjustly assume that Adam was callous and simply even glibly doled out names for the animals as one might recite an alphabet. Even with such a hideous thought in mind could there possibly be enough time to name the thousands of animals in the hours left on that sixth day as human reckoning acknowledges a day? I believe not. I am convinced that Adam did indeed give thought to each and every animal but spent considerable time admiring the beautifully strange and diverse creatures God called to parade before this first man. After this Adam was put to sleep and Eve created of him, being given to Adam as his helper, still within the context of the sixth day. We have realized a first problem in the fact that humans now compartmentalize time to seconds, minutes, hours, and days. With this definition of time there is not any way that Adam could have named the animals with the portion of the day (as we know the term day) left and still allowed time for Eve to be created. At this time we must step out of our comfort zone regarding time defined. What if time had not been created as of yet? Time is absolutely a creation of God, one in which he has blessed us with though caused by our own rebellion. Without time having been created just one unthinkable aspect would be that there could be no ending or end of one period allowing for another. If after the fall time did not start clicking redemption could not come. It was prophesied that at a certain time the messiah would come, first to be offered a sacrifice for mans sin, then to come yet again at an appointed time to judge and rule and yet again to rule for only a period of time (1000 years). After this eternity will move into place
.where time will again be restored to a place of no relevance. For how will you count to eternity? What number will be used to grasp the time which would transpire if it was yet measured in eternity as it is measured now within the realm of man. The point can be made without heresy that a day is truly as 1000 years to God and that before time came into being it could have taken a million of what we might call hours to complete the cycle of a day
..the earth spinning in its cycle creating morning, noon and night. If this be true the idea that animals and humans being made and the naming of all the animals happening within a day can be grasped logically. God is the ruler of time, time does not rule the Un-Created One as it does within creation. Think on the fact that God clearly states the days will be shortened at the end of the age so that man is not destroyed. Does this mean there will be fewer hours in the day, or that time itself will be sped up so that an hour no longer takes an hour to go through the hour glass?
With the idea of time now being redefined we see that other possibilities can now exist with no lapse in logic or critical thinking needed to fit creation into our finite understanding. After Adam so aptly named the creatures he now was able to commune with the creature God saved for last. The idea that His creation went from good to better in the period he spent creating should allow one to wonder at the beauty and fullness of creation God bestowed upon that which would be a helper to man. This combined with a Garden tilled by the creator Himself as a home for them allowed for perfect circumstances to develop in which the man would know the woman and offspring would follow. The idea that the day after Adam and Eve were created was when they sinned is ludicrous, yet most often held either consciously or subconsciously to be true. Could you imagine that after being created you open your eyes and gaze upon God, not as a baby uncomprehending the fathers eyes of love but as a fully mature human complete with perfect emotions with which you could grasp the love emanating towards you from this Eternal Father. This is the case with Adam, after which he is bestowed all power and dominion over all of creation and doubly blessed with the most beautiful woman made to exactly complement the areas in the heart that makes man what he is. The celebration continues with the gift of a home: the Garden of Eden.
The Creator now was able to commune with His creation, actually and experientially walking in the cool of the day with Adam and Eve. Words are as a dry well in the desert when used to describe what free and perfect communion is like with God. Yet we are to think, I believe because of the very sin nature we have, that man so quickly abandoned this in order to rebel against their Friend and God by doing the only thing He commanded them not to do. One could surmise that a great period of fellowship ensued after creation, one which allowed for the world to be filled with the children of Eve. Would the joy of watching, even participating in the multiplication of His creation be limited to a fallen man reproducing in sorrow and pain as one would have to believe if there were no children prior to the fall? Why would God not be blessed as He watched his creation grow, multiply, and subdue the earth as He directed?
Segueing into the realm of Lucifer is of importance at this point. On the sixth day God, after his creation was complete, announced that it was very good. This again establishes an area of thought that must be considered; could His creation have been good if Lucifer had already fallen? I believe it could not have been. Lucifer, after his rebellion was sent out of heaven and into the atmosphere of creation. If a fallen creation had already been imposed upon the earth within the six days of creation then it could not be perfect and good, for it was already in a degenerative state of order. I submit that the creation of man as a creation being lesser than the angels yet eternal and made in the image of the creator in a manner that the angels (servants of God) were not, contributed to, possibly even initiated the sin of pride within the angel of light who was Lucifer. When this pride grew and exalted itself above the Creator he and a third of the angels were expelled from the Kingdom of God to the Kingdom of Man. Within this latter kingdom at a point that is not defined Satan tempted man to disobey the only law imposed on them to that point. How long was the influence of Satan and his angels in the atmosphere prior to this point? What if the world was populated, the children of eve outside the garden
filling the earth as described and were at this point, as the scripture references, angels knowing the daughters of man, enticed to have relations with these fallen angels creating the race known as Nephilim? (Genesis 6:1-4)
With the fall of man conceptually behind us we move into the realm of the curse. God told Eve that in pain and sorrow would she now bear children. After the curses, consequential to their sin was pronounced we move to the birth of Cain and Abel. Again the misconceived idea of these sons being the firstborn is carried into our thoughts not based on biblical insight but upon the assumed obvious fact that if the bible did not list any previous children then these are the firstborn. If indeed they were the firstborn how could the bible have not communicated this to us? In the chronologies of the bible it is usually narrated in a manner that states the firstborn as clearly defined from the rest of the siblings, reference Cain and Abel may not have been the first born but only the first born since the fall. The bible simply states that Adam knew Eve and she bore a son Cain and again bore a son Abel. What is noted in these scriptures (Genesis 4:1-2) is that Eve said and with the Lords help I have given birth to a man, again almost insinuating that prior to the fall she did not need the Lords help. (As in perfect environment, free from pain and sorrow). Later in the same chapter of Genesis Cain kills Abel and goes away to the Land of Nod, east of Eden. So after the only other person listed as being alive in the entire world is killed, Cain takes a wife and moves to the city he was building. Where did Cain get a wife, who was in the city he was building, and who named this land Nod?
It all leads one to believe that there was more on the earth than you would think.
Knowing the bible as a book describing a love story; the love of the creator towards his creation we should not put blinders on our mind when it comes to thinking of creation and pro-creation. When we can trust God as being good and merciful, striving always to allow His creation to commune with Himself then we can look at the options left us in the Book of Genesis. These options though thought provoking do not hinder in any way the Book as a whole but rather allow the created mind of man to reach into the un-created mind of the Father. As one does not know what eternity future holds one can only equally surmise thoughts based on bits of attainable information about eternity past.
| 2006/3/23 13:22||Profile|
| Re: Hi TS|
I want to answer your post, I will do so, but short on time at the moment.
It is very interesting the question you have brought up.
| 2006/3/23 16:48||Profile|