| God does not want ministers and workers....|
by Chip Brodgen
And [Jesus] ordained twelve, that they should BE with Him, and that He MIGHT send them forth to preach"(Mark 3:14).
God does not want ministers or workers to begin with. We think these things are very important, for how can the Church get along without ministers and workers?
What else does God want if not ministers and workers? Quite simply, He wants disciples first and foremost. There are many ministers and workers today and very few disciples. Everyone either has a ministry or wants a ministry. Everyone is expected to be a minister or a worker.
We do not hear too much about being a disciple, yet this is what God must have before He can have anythingin the Church.
Taken from [url=http://www.theschoolofchrist.org/articles/disciple.html]The Way of the Disciple[/url]
| 2006/3/13 15:44||Profile|
| Re: God does not want ministers and workers....|
I know for me I put a lot of pressure on myself to do "God's work"... and I do believe he has called me into certain ministries. But there have been times when He has told me to stop... sit... learn... relax.
| 2006/3/13 16:02|
Kansas City, Missouri
I dont see it as an either or, but rather both. First as a disciple of Christ, and then He sends the disciples out. Gods work on earth will be accomplished as there are willing vessels that will be used of the Lord for His purpose and His alone.
5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, (refers mainly to Church Government, as well false doctrine etc
) and ordain elders (Pastors) in every city, as I had appointed thee:
6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop (Pastor, Bishop, Elder, Shepherd, Presbyter are all interchangeable, and all concerns the local assembly) must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
37 Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;
38 Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.
There are many ministers and workers today and very few disciples.
If this be the case, indeed it is regrettable. In Gods government He desires the sheep to have Shepherds that will help keep watch, and when the wolves would seek to devour the flock will then set out to protect.
But there have been times when He has told me to stop... sit... learn... relax
It is these times that can be difficult, even more so when you feel you must explain yourself and try to get others to "see it".
| 2006/3/13 16:10||Profile|
| Re: the cost of discipleship|
A few more thoughts from the article by C Brodgen:
The Cost of Discipleship
What does it cost to become a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ? What does one have to give up? There is truly only one thing that must be given up. It is not, and it never has been, a question of giving up friends, family, material possessions, fame and fortune. You can give up all those things, just like the first disciples of the Lord, and still run away and deny Him.
Forget the outward things and go right to the heart of the matter. Only one thing is necessary, and if we give up this one thing we are qualified to be disciples of the Lord. What is the one thing? All we have to give up is OUR WAY.
There are two ways, one which seems right, and one which IS right. One is my way, the other is His way.
Yes, if we are willing to give up OUR way then we have, in effect, given up everything. I am thinking of a dear man who pastors a church, but he does it according to his way. Unfortunately he cannot see that he is pastoring according to his way. Not that his way is necessarily bad, because there is a lot of good work in his ministry. But it is not purely the Way of Christ. I do not expect that he will give up his church, or his ministry. The reality is that he will probably never give up his work. The glorious thing is he does not have to give up a single thing, except his own way! If he will but give that up, everything else will take care of itself. The same is true of us.
That is not to say we will keep everything. When we give up our way then we will, in fact, lose quite a bit. We will lose the admiration and appreciation of the world. We will lose the prestige and position we once enjoyed. We may very well lose friends and even members of our family who will not approve of us anymore.
| 2006/3/13 16:24||Profile|
I'm not saying that I totally agree or disagree but this is what I see in the churches in America and thier pulpits today. The spitualization of all things "Christ" as to our devotion and discipleship. A cursory reading through the teachings of Christ will quickly uproot alot of our selfish ways forcing us to either chose the cross and self denial by our ministering towards each other, or we chose to spiritualize the meanings of these teachings and cover over our consciences with thoughs interpetations. The motive of our obedience is always love, but not nessarily a love toward others as much as a love out of our love for Jesus Christ. We are all both called to minister in the local body or fellowship and also to witness outside the 4 walls of the church. The way this is accomplished is as diverse as our Wonderful God who Himself haas no limits. Let me pause to reflect and praise our Glorious Savior!
| 2006/3/13 17:17||Profile|
| Re: It's what we lay on the alter|
I dont see it as an either or, but rather both. First as a disciple of Christ, and then He sends the disciples out.
Yes, Tony, I quite agree with the spirit of your message, and I think that is what the writer intended. I think he is really saying that God does not want us to present on the alter our abilities, positions, talents, gifts, callings, etc, - but merely our WILL. And that is the starting point of true discipleship. And from there the roles - as GOD leads.
Dohzman, does that harmonize with your thoughts?
I refrained from using the actual title, because I though the words that I used would provoke more thought, ( maybe some confusion, too.)
As always, it's best to read the entire article. (see link)
| 2006/3/13 17:19||Profile|
You summed it up nicely :-) In most cases our obedient response to the different human conditions we come across daily is measureable in the tangibles, or resources we have at our disposal.
| 2006/3/13 17:38||Profile|
I think everyone here has some good points.
I like this song written to express God's hearts desire:
God wants someone to love Him,
Not just someone to serve Him
God wants someone to love Him
As His Bride
God wants someone to match Him
Not just to imitate Him
He wants a counterpart.
One from His side.
For this He came down to us
He came to court, to woo us
Away from everything and
Now were espoused unto Him
Pledged and betrothed unto Him
Yes, we are bound unto Him
By His Love
God wants someone to love Him
Not just someone to fear Him
He wants a sweetheart who will
Be His Bride.
God wants someone to know Him
Not just to know about Him
He wants some wholl look Him
In the eye.
| 2006/3/15 12:51||Profile|
Graftedbranch, I've never heard the song but the message says so much.
Do we have the vocabulary to understand its meaning? For instance "God wants someone to know Him." Can we 'know' Him if we perceive Him as being a majestic king sitting somewhere in Heaven on a throne who deems it worthwhile to manifest His presence occasionally unto His subjects? Most Christians I know say that Jesus is in their heart but pray to a God far away.
How do we "look in Him in the eye" if we only expect to 'see' Him at the church building or during times of revival?
Isn't the author trying to convey an intimacy that most can't even imagine?
Thanks for sharing the song.
| 2006/3/15 13:09||Profile|
I think the most overlooked book in the Bible is the Song of Songs which most read from a very natural point of view thinking it is a book of instruction on how to have a good courtship and marriage.
But as the Saints throughout the ages have seen by the Spirit's Light and substantiated by Paul's allusions to it in 1 corinthians, It is a poem regarding the intimate relationship beteen Christ as the Bridegroom and his redeemed lover.
IN this book, Soloman is a type of Christ as the Bridegroom and the Shulimite is a type of the redeemed saint being beautified and tranformed into the image of Her Bridgroom to become His match, His Lover, His co-worker, and His warrior Bride.
It is a revelation of God's hearts desire not to have a bunch of creatures who worship Him as their creator, He has this in the angels. But rather His intent to have in Christ as the Bridgroom, a wife, from His side, constituted with His Life and Nature, perfected to be His counterpart for His enjoyment for eternity. This is God's ultimate purpose in creating and redeeming man.
It also reveals Christ's intense longing and love for His Bride and how He treasures every advancement and evey manifestation of His Life from within her. He see's her as beautiful and even likens her to a Palm Tree which He longs to climb her branches and enjoy her fruits.
It shows us His satisfaction with His redeemed, sanctified lover and His pleasure which He takes in her.
Hudson Taylor, the famous missionary to Inland China in the 19th century wrote only one book. It is a small book on the Song of Songs called, "Union and Communion". It is significant that one who was perhaps most used in evangelistic enterprise and missionary endeovers wrote only one book and it is on the Songs of Songs conserning the intimate union and communion of the redeemed Lover of Christ and her Bridegroom.
| 2006/3/15 13:28||Profile|