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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : A pastor, husband of one wife?

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GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:



Is a bishop a pastor? Why doesn’t it say pastor instead of bishop? Is someone that prophesies a pastor? Why does it say your sons and daughters shall prophesy? Is the word shepherd only talking about a pastor’s position? Weren’t the government officials as responsible as the Levites for the care of the people?

Two things that I think are the work of a pastor are visiting the sick and visiting those in prison. I have noticed that many people who carry the title pastor don’t do these things and many who don’t carry the title of pastor do these things. The title pastor doesn’t impress me at all, it is the person who will allow themselves to do the work of a pastor that bears a witness to me who they are in God’s order.



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Gary Eckenroth

 2006/3/9 13:22Profile









 Re:

Bishop mean elder, elder and pastor are interchangable. They mean the same thing. In the new testiment there is nothing that indicates that a person who has prophesied is a pastor.

A pastor/elder is a person who oversees the local church, cares for those in his flock, teaches the Word of God. He does not rule with an iron fist, or in a corporate CEO fashion... rather he is a servant leader. He serves those he oversees. He encourages. He loves and prays for those in his flock. At times he chases away wolves and bears and lions.

You cant just stick any ol' Joe Blow in that position. It has to be someone who really is walking closely w/God.

Krispy

 2006/3/9 13:33









 Re: Pastors, the husband of one wife?


With reference to the title of this thread, before it gets too long, it might be useful to remind ourselves of the scarcity of the word 'pastor' in the New Testament, and to link to the thread on pastors... who they are and what 'they' do.

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9289&forum=35]http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9289&forum=35[/url]

Really this does not need to turn into another long discussion on divorce and remarriage. There are two very long threads at least, which cover what most of us think or know.

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5599&forum=36]http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5599&forum=36[/url]

[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7148&forum=35]http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7148&forum=35[/url]


Scripture has to set a standard, but, one only as to read a short way to find out that the Adamic nature is always at hand, and God is always having to forgive and restore mankind graciously, into fellowship with Himself.

I will resist the temptation to restate my views in full, but I'd like to say that the sense and meaning of Paul's teaching is entirely valid for anyone who has grown up as a follower of Christ.

The muddy water is when people come to Christ with sexual history.

Either you [u]believe[/u] that His blood cleanses from ALL sin, or you [i]doubt it[/i].

The other thing I return to again and again is, that the picture of the Bride and Christ, is what marriage is about.

If love is missing, then it doesn't work as a marriage is supposed to, because that is the [u]core component[/u] that makes it (and everything else) hold together.

Lastly, there is no sexuality or gender in the Spirit - in the Body - and it is only when a man and a woman seek to be in relationship to each other as spouses, that these differences matter.

There are many women on the mission field doing the jobs of men, because the men don't go. These women who are eldering and pastoring, casting out demons and healing the sick through the power of the Spirit... Is God using them by mistake? Doesn't He know they are female?

I think my main worry is that in a determined effort to know the word, and to stick to it for all the right reasons, some of you forget that the Old Testament is packed with examples of God breaking His own rules. Brethren, this is not our idea. It's HIS!

If He decides to carry on using a believer after their divorce, or their adultery, or their unspeakable criminal act, is He or is He not within His rights, after redeeming every one of us and the whole of mankind?

Who are you to tell someone who has made a new relationship after the image in scripture, that they are not forgiven for their former sins, their errors of judgement, or their attempts to rectify their life into an order which God can finally work with? Rather you than me.

In the end, each person has to hear from God for themselves and be obedient, or a worse fate awaits them than the censure of their fellow Christians for taking up a leadership position (after new birth), when their past involved a failed marriage....

Jesus said:
Matthew 19:12
For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that [u]is [b][i]able[/i][/u] to receive it[/b], [b]let him receive it[/b].

Please forgive me if I sound tetchy. The kind of strictures which some of you are offering to place on me because I'm a divorced woman, go directly against what God is doing in my life and leading me through and towards. There is no way I could submit to anyone but Him, in these circumstances. I hope you understand I share this to illuminate my stance, because I have thought a great deal about what scripture seems to teach, and I find His word entirely compatible with my experience of Him.

While I was away I was sitting in a train beside a lecturer with a very broad remit, and in discussion, one little change he made to our well-known 'the exception [i]proves[/i] the rule' was from history, when apparently it was said 'it is the expception which [u]strengthens[/u] the rule'. I thought that was interesting, as it gives completely fresh meaning to the saying, and it also leaves [i]plenty[/i] of room for exceptions.

I don't intend to contribute much more to this thread unless I'm asked specific questions, which I will answer.

 2006/3/9 13:54
groh_frog
Member



Joined: 2005/1/5
Posts: 432


 Re:

It's more than just the event that must be considered.

Like Dorcas said, the Lord redeems and changes people. Look at murdering Moses, etc. I don't have to expand. The problem when it comes to a "pastor", "deacon", or "elder" is that if a sexual sin happens while that leader is in office, it shows the character of that leader's heart. And because they are a leader, they betray those that they lead when they turn away from the Lord in such a huge and important way that they should no longer be considered fit to teach.

Divorce is something harder to measure in itself. What happened? Maybe the wife of a pastor in question committed adultery and left him? Can he be condemned for that? I would hope not. It's a two-sided coin, though.

On my recent deployment, I met a man who was currently living in an adulterous relationship with a woman married to another man. She had kids, a husband, and yet was happily in adultery with this man (she was an unbeliever, he a christian). He justified this relationship because his pastor had told him that it was alright. His pastor felt that it was alright, because he had done the same thing himself. As a pastor, he committed adultery with another married woman, divorced his wife to marry that woman, and claimed that it was all God's will, evident by the fact that they were now happy together.

And there was no accountability.

I believe that that pastor has no place in being a pastor. Not only did he himself turn his back on God, he's leading others to do the same. And that is what you risk by allowing that man to continue in leadership.

Now, I know people who got divorced before they came to Christ. They are eligible to teach someday. I know "baby christians" who have fallen in huge ways, and I believe that with repentance, they can "get past it" in their walk. But when an elder, deacon, or pastor is willing to sin like that, no matter their ability to "move on", repent, be forgiven... They have no place in leadership anymore.

 2006/3/9 14:25Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Please forgive me if I sound tetchy. The kind of strictures which some of you are offering to place on me because I'm a divorced woman, go directly against what God is doing in my life and leading me through and towards. There is no way I could submit to anyone but Him, in these circumstances. I hope you understand I share this to illuminate my stance, because I have thought a great deal about what scripture seems to teach, and I find His word entirely compatible with my experience of Him.



I will not sit in judgement over what someone says God is doing in their life. Dorcas, I know you just a little from this forum... so I dont want you to think I am.

But all I can do is look in God's Word. If it isnt in God's Word, then I will side with God's Word everytime.

I do not believe God calls women to be pastors/elders. I do not believe God calls women to hold positions over men [b]in the church[/b]. (This does not apply to the secular world)

I believe this because this is what His Word plainly says.

And I believe the same thing about men who are divorced and/or have out of control children.

Krispy

 2006/3/9 14:47
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: A pastor, husband of one wife?

Quote:

Is this passage of scripture in I Timothy chapter three saying that a pastor must be a man of one wife(having never been divorced), or(one wife at a time)?



1 Timothy teaches that the man is to be literally (in the greek) "a one woman man." Or in otherwords, to have only one wife. Polygamy was not legal in Rome, so, knowing this automatically rules out that possible interpretation.

The only thing this passage could mean is that a pastor can only be the husband of one wife. This would allow for Biblical divorces/remarriage (e.g. because of an unfaithful spouse), but if one entered into an unbiblical remarriage, one would be disqualified from being a pastor in the church of God until the ex-spouse died, as an unbiblical remarriage is looked at as adultery in Matthew 19.

This is not to say though, that such individuals cannot be used in other ministries within the church. Just not pastor.


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Jimmy H

 2006/3/9 15:04Profile









 Re: A pastor, husband of one wife

(NKJV) 1 Timothy 1
3 [b]As I urged you[/b] when I went into Macedonia -- [b]remain in [u]Ephesus[/u] that you may charge some that they teach no other doctrine[/b],


Ephesus, the centre of Diana worship, where the people were [i][b]so[/b][/i] sick the Lord had done special miracles of healing through Paul.

 2006/3/9 15:13
brentw
Member



Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

I firmly believe if someone was divorced before Christ then he is not bound by 1 Tim. 3:2.
But if a christian got divorced and tried to be a pastor...THEN the biblical guidelines apply!! Let me throw in a twist...I believe if a christian divorces for any UNbiblical reason they are not chrisians any longer.


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Brent

 2006/3/9 15:30Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I firmly believe if someone was divorced before Christ then he is not bound by 1 Tim. 3:2.



I agree under most circumstances. I think mature wisdom and much seeking of God would need to go into it. If someone was divorced because their wife discovered they were molesting children... even after salvation it would be stupid to put that person in a leadership role. It would be unsafe for the church, and it would be putting that person in spiritual danger as well.

I think it's a case to case situation under those circumatances.

Quote:
I believe if a christian divorces for any UNbiblical reason they are not chrisians any longer.



This I cant go along with... Scripture says:

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Notice Paul did not end that passage with... "Well, now that I think about it... un-Biblical divorce can actually separate us from the love of God!"

Krispy

 2006/3/9 16:09
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
Do you believe that God "sees" the 2nd marriage or its just an adultrous relationship?



Well, since you asked I will expound. This subject has been talked and talked here many times before and I have shared my views. Yes, I believe scripture teaches if any person divorces and marries again(while having a living spouse, Rom. 7:2-3, I Cor. 7:39) they are in a STATE of adultery. Entering into a new marriage Jesus says is committing adultery (Mt. 5:32, Mt. 19:9, Mk. 10:12, Lk. 16:16-18). By it's very definition (unlawful relations with one who is NOT your spouse), it cannot be a sanctioned marriage in the sight of God.

Now, if he were to put away the unlawful wife, I believe he would fit the requirements for an elder, as he is now truly the husband of one wife-----if the other character traits were true of him as well. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy


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Cindy

 2006/3/9 16:17Profile





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