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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Dare I say... alcohol?????

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ryanelijah
Member



Joined: 2006/1/30
Posts: 23


 Dare I say... alcohol?????

Hey everyone!!! It seems as if there are a lot of Christians on this site from all over the place (The US, Canada, Europe etc...) and I thought I would ask what may be a very easy question, or may cause a whole lot of problems: What do yall think about Christians drinking alcohol? I have my own opinions, but I was just curious...

Hope I didn't start a world war... :-)

 2006/3/8 17:18Profile
saved_matt
Member



Joined: 2005/7/3
Posts: 233
Lancashire, England

 Re: Dare I say... alcohol?????

Hey Ryanelijah welcome to SI, :-)

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

to me this says dont get drunk, not dont drink, but i dont do the latter either:-P

my 2 cents, works well for me,

God bless look forward to reading more from you

matt


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matt

 2006/3/8 17:37Profile
Greenquality
Member



Joined: 2006/1/26
Posts: 189
mountains of Pa.

 Re: Dare I say... alcohol?????

I like the wine, every now than,I don't drink to get drunk. so you all know.!!

 2006/3/8 17:38Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: Jesus first miracle

Woudn't it have been fun to be at Jesus' first miracle! What a way to launch a carreer - announce his Messiahship!

Maybe he did that because wine is a prophetic picture of the New Covenant - which is what Christ as really all about.
Diane


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Diane

 2006/3/8 17:50Profile
brentw
Member



Joined: 2005/12/14
Posts: 440
Ohio

 Re:

I confess right now to you all...I get drunk everday...Sometimes I see visions...sometimes I get so drunk I weep & weep...I do some strange things...
I confess I'm a Godaholic...I get drunk on Jesus' love everday!! :-D

Sorry, I just couldnt pass it up. ;-)


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Brent

 2006/3/8 17:51Profile
TonyS
Member



Joined: 2005/1/29
Posts: 154
Kansas City, Missouri

 Re: Re Alcohol

Proverbs 20:21:
[i]Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.[/i]

Matthew Henry in part adds:
It mocks him, makes a fool of him, promises him that satisfaction which it can never give. It smiles upon him at the first, but at the last it bites.

and Proverbs 23:31:
[i]Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.[/i]

And Matthew Henry again,
Take heed of the bait, for fear of the hook.

And indeed, a hook is what you will find. If it is the taste one enjoys why not a non-alcoholic variety? Why not take to heart “abstain from all appearance of evil”?

Enough for me to abstain. I need all my mental and physical faculties operating unimpaired as we are living in perilous times.

tonys


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Tony Sexton

 2006/3/8 18:01Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Dare I say... alcohol?????

I realy like a good white wine now and then.

The thing to remember is moderation.

 2006/3/8 19:50Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re: Dare I say... alcohol?????

I had a discussion with a guy once about drug use, but the principle fits in here.

Paul wrote, "Whatever is not of faith is sin."

I asked this guy, "Why do people take drugs?"
He said` "I don't know? Lots of reasons."
Aaron - "Give a specific person's reason."
Bloke - "Dulls the pain of life? Feels good?"
Aaron - "Is there another way to do that?"
Bloke - "I don't know? Perhaps?"
Aaron - "Let, me put it another way, does God have a perscribed meathod of addressing the problem of pain, lonliness?"
Bloke - "I don't know?"
Aaron - "Have you ever asked Him? Have you ever searched His Word for an answer to that question?"

The problem with most "Christian" responses to issues like alcohol and drug use is that most Christian have an ignorance about addictions, thinking them to be all about being controled by something. While this is true, it is over simplified, because it ignores things like brain chemistry and emotional developement.

The issue of alchohol and drug use is one of meeting God given needs by a means that was not perscribed by God. The reality is, that we all do this in one area or another, but for some reason we tend to claim permission to do our thing, rather than allow it to show us our depravity, when compared with a perfect God.

If I were to tell you that I tend to have a short fuse and lose my temper with my childeren frequently (no I'm not being hyperthetical), what would you think if I justified it by saying, "Well, he deserves it. No matter how many times I tell him to do something, he won't learn how to do it right." Many people do this, while all the "super patient" people "tut-tut" at them. Then "victimised parents" let out a "Yeah, I hear you.." (Perhaps I should mention at this point that my son is 5yo.) Who's right in all this? None of them, God is.

Will any of these opinions make my conduct okay? No. Will they change my behavious? Probably not. The only thing that will is an application of 1 John 1:8-10. Until I have the guts to admit that what I am doing falls short of His perfect will, and that I have no intrinsic desire to change, I won't.

Alchohol meets a need that God intended holy fellowship with other people to meet. I could elaborate on that, but it would take too much time, and would distract us from the issue into a discussion on the compatabilty of psychology with scripture.

If you drink, then I'm not in anyway trying to say that you're less of a person than a "grumpy old man" like me, but don't allow yourself to be deceived into thinking that God approves of it.


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Aaron Ireland

 2006/3/8 20:32Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: dare I say alcohol.. you bet!

I find it interesting that some of the most vivid and beautiful pictures God has placed into the fabric of live has been so terribly distorted by misuse. For example: marriage, sex, and many more, including wine. Satan tries to keep our focus on the flaws in those pictures to such an extent that we fail to see the real beauty and the real meaning behind that symbol.

Wine was a drink offering to God.
... a land of grain and new wine
..and abundant supply of new wine
"New wine will drip from the mountains, and flow from all the hills" Amos 9:13
'The vats will brim over with new wine." Joel 2:24
:their hearts will be glad as with new wine." Zech. 10:7

New wine symbolizes the New Covenant promise which would burst through the confining walls of Old Covenant religion.
Lk5:37 No one pours new wine into old wine skins... the new wine will burst the skins.

Sadly many will want to cling to their old religious traditions. Jesus said, 'and no one after drinking the old wine wants the new, for he says, "The old is better." Lk. 5:39 They just refuse to taste the new wine!

Just as God's mercy has a flip side for all who reject him, ie judgment, so also wine has a flip side for those who reject God's spriitual new wine" Wine is a mocker, .. and drink the wine of violence, .. ..."maddening wine of her aldulteries." Rev. 18:3

You can't have it both ways. Without surrender to God, you surrender to something else - symbolized with wine - that can gain control of you and destroy you and others. Or, you take of God' New Wine and be filled with his Spirit, living a life under God's authority.

Wine is a symbol of God's blessings for obedience. Note what happens to wine during judgment: Your choice wine is diluted with water.(apostate Israel) Is. 1:22 the new wine drys up and the vine withers." Is. 24:7

In the final judgment that very thing that was a symbol of blessing becomes symbolic of judgment:
" The wine of God's fury." Rev. Rev. 14:10

I feel badly for all those who either misuse alchohol, or only think of the bad side of it and never view it as a magnificent picture God gave us of the most wonderful promise that has ever and will ever exist - even for all eternity.

Dare I say ....alcohol!!! ... You bet!!!!! (ie New Wine)
Diane


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Diane

 2006/3/8 21:22Profile
Janus
Member



Joined: 2003/9/26
Posts: 29
Cape Town - South Africa

 Re: Dare I say... alcohol?????

Hi you all. This was a big issue all my life. As christians we never drank or had any alcohol in our home and none of my family members drink until this day. The hard thing for me was the very same thing most christians struggle with. The fact that it seems like if the Scriptures contradict itself. In one place God says, dont get drunk and in another occasion He makes wine for the people on which they could get drunk???

How do you understand that? I didn't understand it at all when I was younger. THe reason so many of us still sit with issues like this one, is because we are to laisy to do some research and searching in the area. Instead we make our own opinions as it fits us.

Only after I did quite a search and reading on the topic of wine and alcohol, I realised most of us has no idea where wine came from and how it was made in the Bible times!!!!

I cant explain and write everything here, it will take ages. But just for example. Wine in the times of Kings and Popes who lived just after Jesus, was described in their writings. These wine was made by pressing out the juice. Then the juice was placed in the sun to evaporate the water content. The wine then became like a jelly and it was placed in NEW lether bags to be preserved. When if one would like to drink it, it was thrown out of the bag and mixed again with water. In those times fermented wine was NOT good wine. Good wine was those that just came from the grape , the NEW WINE, that had no time for fermentation!! Jesus said that NEW WINE should not be thrown in old leather bags, otherwise it whould burst(fermentation would start and the gas produced will rip the bag and the wine will get messed) The process of fermentation in the Bible in almost all situations is associated with sin.

Another thing is the word wine!! THe bad thing is that in Greek and Hebrew(and here is a part I have not totally finished my homework yet) there is only one or two words for the word wine. The words further does not distinguish Whether it is non- or totally alcoholic. Therefore all the words or most of them were translated into wine.

And the alcoholic wine we know today is very different than those they had in Jesus' time.

If we would just study to show ourselves approved before God. I many times wonder why muslims and others don't come to Christ more often. And one of the things is, we dont questions things or take a good look at its origin and end. If we do that more, I do believe we would't have half as many of these things we dont really know what to say about.

A great book to read on this is the following. Please don't look at the writer, great study and searching was also put into that book and it is worth reading, even if you don't agree with the writer in other parts. Do your own study and search in any case.

The book is: SIPPING SAINTS
by:DAVID WILKERSON

Hope and pray that Christ will open our eyes to the truth, even if it is mine that needs to be opened if I am wrong.

In Christ.
Janus


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Johannes Jacobs

 2006/3/9 1:26Profile





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