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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS is Jeruselem

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Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

I proove my point that it is Jeruselem by Scripture.

CJaKfOrEsTwrote:

Quote:

questions that need to be asked are:
Is Babylon's destruction before or after the return of Christ?



Before, but we must know when the return is. Babylon's destruction is Rev. Rev. 18 and His return is 19:11-16
Quote:

Is the Millenium before or after Judgement Day?
Is the old Heaven and Earth destroyed before Christ returns?



Before. The Millenium is in Rev.20:4-6. Judgement Day is 20:1-15.

Quote:
Does the New Heaven and Earth come before the old is cast into the Lake of Fire?



After.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


Quote:
Does the New Jerusalem descend into the old Earth or the New?



The New
:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


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Rev.18:2 And he cried in a strong, great voice, saying, Babylon the great has fallen! It has fallen, and it has become a dwelling-place of demons, and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
(Ref. Mat 12:43-45 [b]When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walks through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none. :44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he finds it empty, swept, and garnished. :45 Then goes he, and takes with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation[/b]

Rev.18:16 and saying, Woe! Woe to the great city having been clothed in linen and purple and scarlet, and having been gilded and decked with gold and precious stone, and pearls!
Ref Exo 28:8-9 [b]And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen. :9 And thou shalt take two onyx stones, and grave on them the names of the children of Israel:,[/b]

Jer 4:30-31 [b]And when thou art spoiled, what wilt thou do? Though thou clothes thyself with crimson, though thou decks thee with ornaments of gold, though thou rents thy face with painting, in vain shalt thou make thyself fair; thy lovers will despise thee, they will seek thy life. :31 For I have heard a voice as of a woman in travail, and the anguish as of her that brings forth her first child, the voice of the daughter of Zion, that bewails herself, that spreads her hands, saying, Woe is me now! for my soul is wearied because of murderers.[/b]

Rev.18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all the ones having been slain on the earth.
(Ref Mat 23:34-37 [b]werefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: :35 [u]That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth,[/u] from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. :36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. :37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that kills the prophets, and stones them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathers her chickens under her wings, and ye would not![/b]
Luk 11:50-51 [b]That, [u]the blood of all the prophetsthe[/u] which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; :51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.[/b] 1Th 2:15 [b]Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men[/b]

I have a question; Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which you saw upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and [b]shall make her desolate and naked[/b], and shall eat her flesh, [b]and burn her with fire.[/b]

My question is why would these ten horns hate anybody else besides Israel? They wouldn't, all through history the world hated Israel.

Here is my answer:
Eze 16:37-41 Behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, [b]and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness.[/b] :38 And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy. :39 And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall [b]strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare.[/b] :40 They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords. :41 [b]And they shall burn thine houses with fire,[/b] and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more

 2006/3/8 15:24Profile









 Re:

Thats all find and dandy, but WHO decides what is taken literally and what is taken spiritually?

We can say that God decides, but it seems that we are all listening to God and getting different messages.

I can cross reference until I am cross eyed, but in the end who sets this stuff in stone that this is speaking of literal things, and this over here is speaking spiritual?

 2006/3/8 17:38
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
I have a question; Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which you saw upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and [b]shall make her desolate and naked[/b], and shall eat her flesh, [b]and burn her with fire.[/b]

My question is why would these ten horns hate anybody else besides Israel? They wouldn't, all through history the world hated Israel.



I'm glad we agree on the answers to the questions presented. I didn't quote the scripture because I didn't need to. You obviously know where they are:-P. My reason for posting them is that you seem to imply that the New Jerusalem is the Jerusalem that won't be "utterly destroyed". I find no biblical precedant for that assertion, as scripture seems to imply that a remnant is preserved, not that it the old model is replaced by the new. And as you put it, the New Jerusalem descends after the old Heaven and Earth are destroyed (utterly no less).

In response to your question, I direct you again to my earlier post where I posted a link to Parkyn's Church History series. In this he proves in scripture who the Ten Horns [b]were[/b] and history provides some very clear confirmation that answers that question. So I say to you listen to the series (whether objectively or critically...I don't mind) and then if you still don't know the answer, I'll tell you.

To paraphrase AW Tozer "Scripture is always reasonable, although it at times transcends reason." Logical conclusions can be found all through scripture, and so can pretexts and superstitions, which generally appear to be the most logical of all.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2006/3/8 20:00Profile









 Re:

Hey Logic,
I'm not a Historicist... but from the perspective that I'm from ... has these 10 kingdoms in a map now called the "Ten Bio-Regions" and I have that map from a Calvary Chapel website and a few other Christian Websites. So it's not "conspiracy theory stuff" as some far too quickly say, without further examining the evidence.

One day, that map will be how this earth is split ... that's why the map was drawn up.

Ten regions of the globe will need ten heads or horns if you will.

Anyhow, the UN has already written that they plan to eventual be in the "International City", which is Jerusalem.

They are also set up for 10 "Heads" of these 10 Bio-Regions.
We know that one day ... the antiChrist will put his seat in Jerusalem ... so no one can utterly destroy the place where Christ will return to stop those armies trying to take Jerusalem 'for' the antiChrist.

Just figure it out brother ... you're being lied to and it is antiChrist spirits that say the place that Jesus is coming to save "with His Armies" is Babylon.

Please think this through and put these teachers stuff down long enough to hear God's Word on this.

Not my words but His Word.



Love you brother.
Annie

 2006/3/8 20:33
GaryE
Member



Joined: 2005/4/26
Posts: 376
Mifflinburg, Pennsylvania

 Re:



This is what will happen during the tribulation. God will pour out on the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will by then know that the Anti-Christ is not the Messiah because of the abomination of desolation. There will be a remnant of Jews that will look upon him {Jesus} who they have pierced.

Zec 12:2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
Zec 12:4 In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
Zec 12:5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
Zec 12:6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like a hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
Zec 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn


_________________
Gary Eckenroth

 2006/3/9 1:12Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Is there a link for the 10 bio regions. I've heard of them and know about them too. I'd like to see that map.

 2006/3/11 16:37Profile









 Re:

http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/maps/1900s/1942world.jpg

http://endtimepilgrim.org/tenhorns.htm

 2006/3/11 18:41
CyberCarbon
Member



Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 122


 Re: THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS is Jeruselem

I think we all should guard against becoming the Mother of all Harlots. My personal favorite for the nomination is the United States Federal Government. But what do I know. The Roman church is an easy target because it is so old and well established. With a long history and extensive reach, any organization is going to have policies and people who fit. However, God will look at the hearts of the faithful and judge the faithless.


_________________
David Michael Paul

 2006/3/12 3:16Profile
h2oboy
Member



Joined: 2006/3/12
Posts: 89
Georgia, USA

 Re:

CyberCarbon as you know there are many in the world who hate the USA and some have said that the US Government or its president is the "Great Satan." I would like to suggest that identifying the Great Whore with any nation may be narrow sighted.

Consider instead that democracy is the adulteress that causes men to leave their covenant with God and worship "man." "Government by the people, for the people, of the people" where is the sovereignty of God? Look at what democracy has produced: evolution rather than creation as the standard of education, the prosperity doctrine (new version of the American Dream also known as 'the love of money'), faith in science and medicine rather than God, modification of standards of right and wrong based on popular opinion, sports idols, entertainment idols, business idols, automotive idols, housing idols,etc.

Where in the Bible does God tell us to take a vote to select or depose a leader or ruler? Where does it say that the way that seems right to man (if a majority) is righteous or justified?

Rev 6:2 "And I saw, and behold, a white horse , and he that sat thereon had a bow; and there was given unto him a crown: and he came forth conquering, and to conquer." ASV

Is it possible this hero riding on a white steed who comes to overthrow tyrannts and despots is the great champion of the people, who takes the control out of the hands of the elite and gives it to the common man, democracy, which had its roots in Rome? This great system of governance, which has no real Lord or Master, promotes free enterprise, that wonderful cup of wine that makes all the merchants of the world drunk with greed (causing the death and destruction of many righteous men and women) will be lamented when kings shall rise and smite her.

What other system or rule has or will produce so much idolatry?


_________________
Jeff Smith

 2006/3/13 0:46Profile
CyberCarbon
Member



Joined: 2005/12/16
Posts: 122


 You missed my point

The popular thing is to point at the Romans, my point is that there are many many more more qualified. My personal choice is the USofA. You may disagree that's OK.


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David Michael Paul

 2006/3/13 1:38Profile





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