Hello my friends! I would REALLY like your opinions on this matter. A very good friend of mine sent me this via email, and I'm at odds with him on this subject. Please read this article first:
http://www.cathedralofhope.com/homosexuality/index.php
This is my response:
"Much of Western culture's homophobia can find its roots in our Judeo-Christian heritage."
I don't think it's the heritage that's the problem, but people who think they're better than everybody else just because they're a christian.
"Considering the relatively small amount of attention the Bible gives to the subject, we must ask ourselves why this is such a volatile issue while other subjects (e.g. judgment, pride, hypocrisy) about which the scriptures say a great deal, receive much less passionate attention."
VERY GOOD POINT!
Mat 21:28-31 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Jesus told the chief priests and the elders of the people that prostitutes would get into heaven before they would because of their pride.
"Early writers had no understanding of homosexuality as a psycho-sexual orientation."
I'm not sure if modern psychology has helped us or harmed us as christians. That's something I've struggled with personally. On the other hand, just because I had a bad experience with it doesn't mean that it can't help someone else to understand themselves better.
"A chief text for condemnation of homosexuality has been the Sodom story ... The story deserves another reading by all of us."
I think Reverend Piazza missed a good scripture to make his point with on this one:
Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
The sins of Sodom were pride, gluttony, laziness, and lack of care for the poor in that city. This verse says nothing about homosexuality.
"Jesus saw injustice and religious hypocrisy as far greater to the Realm of God."
Once again: very true!
Reverend Piazza: "It is only in our day that the Kinsey Institute has demonstrated that sexual orientation is likely determined prior to birth. It could well be that those to whom Jesus refers as being "born eunuchs" are the people we call lesbian or gay.
Certainly most competent psychologist would concur that sexual orientation is set prior to the age of five in most persons. It is, therefore, not a matter of choice, so it cannot be a moral or ethical issue."
Judith A. Reisman, Ph.D., author of, Kinsey, Crimes & Consequences:
"Absent concepts of sin and immorality, psychiatry and psychology rely on sex scientists to inform the professions on sexuality issues. Thus, following the Kinsey model that all sodomy is normal and natural, the American Psychiatric Association determined homosexuality, sadism and pedophilia can also be normal and unproblematic.
Kinsey's pedophile data, claiming that children are sexual from birth, are carved into the fabric of science, pedagogy and law. This "is still taught to psychiatrists, pediatricians, psychologists, sexologists, pedagogues, law and justice professionals, media moguls, theologians, publicpolicy makers, and other movers and shakers worldwide.
What has not been brought out fully in some coming out studies is the role of guide, teacher, or helping hand in either the signification state, the coming-out-stage, or both ... the often benign and helpful role that older, more experienced homosexual men play with regard to younger males.
Scientifically, there are no genetically born gay youth . Many school administrators that have initiated gay youth programs, have done so believing that gay youth commit suicide more than other youth and that these suicides are a result of the lack of acceptance of their gayness rather than the children's traumatic lives which routinely include early sexual abuse.
Why is Kinsey's role as the father of sex science important to any debate about homosexual and sex education in the schools? The mandate to teach bi/homosexual and heterosexual experimentation as legitimate for children and youths originated with Kinsey's data which formulated a revolutionary belief in child and juvenile sexual needand entitlement.
There are several hundred homosexual recovery organizations nationwide. As with the alcohol recovery movement, which was disparaged for decades until proof of success slowly emerged, there areincreasing reports and personal testimonies of restoration."
Merriam-Webster Dictionary says that orientation is "a usually general or lasting direction of thought, inclination, or interest."
Are people born with one disposition or the other, or do they become interested in one or the other by the way their thoughts are directed through learning from others?
I think that saying we are born with it is kind of like the extreme Calvinist who says that some people are predetermined to be saved and some are predetermined to be damned. They say there is no free will, and that a certain lifestyle cannot be chosen by an individual because their destiny is totally controlled by the predetermined sovereignty of God.
Some liken discrimination againsts gay people the same thing as discrimination against people of color. We have no control over what color we will be when we are born. If orientation is whatMerriam-Webster says it is, a " direction of thought, inclination, or interest," can a person not possibly have their thoughts, inclinations or interests changed over time? Or is the Calvinist right when he says there is no such thing as free will?
Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
If there is no such thing as free will or choosing a certain lifestyle, how could Joshua say "choose you this day whom ye will serve"?
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree on this point. I don't think there's anything genetic about choosing a particular lifestyle. I think that our thoughts and inclinations can be influenced and changed. Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
"What Paul was referring to was homosexual temple prostitution which was performed by various cults (through far more cults used heterosexual prostitution). Again, Paul is not referring to same-sex love, and he clearly has no concept of persons for whom this lifestyle is natural."
In Romans 1:31 and 2 Timothy 3:3 we see Paul using the term "natural affection." Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Without natural affection (astorgous). Late word, a privative and storgē, love of kindred. In N.T. only here and 2Ti 3:3. (Robertson's Word Pictures)
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good.
Without natural affection (ἄστοργοι) Only here and Rom 1:31. olxx. See on ἀγάπη love, Gal 5:22, under στέργειν to love with a natural affection. (Vincent's Word Studies)
Roberson says, "love of kindred" and Vincent says, "love with natural affection."
I think Paul was talking about love in these 2 verses.
One key verse that Brother Piazza mentions that could be argued strongly for either side of a debate on homosexuality is 1 Timothy 1:8-11.
Some translations render from the Greek the words "homosexual offenders" and others say "effeminate" or something else entirely. It all depends on which Bible is your personal favorite. The debate over which translation(s) are better than others has always been with us, and I think it always will be.
"The final and central message of he New Testament is that ALL persons are loved by God so much that God's Son was sent as a means of redemption from a disease by which we are all afflicted. The cure for this disease cannot be found in any set of actions."
Eph 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Notice how Ephesians says that we are not saved by works, but that we are still to do them.
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son.
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Grace comes through faith AND obedience. Abraham was saved by faith, but because he had faith, he walked in obedience. His obedience was the evidence of his faith.
It's just like James said: We show our faith by our works. James taught that works is the fruit (or evidence) of our faith:
Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:17-18 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:22-24 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ... Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Read again the illustration Jesus gives of the final judgement in Mat 25:31-46. In the end, he separates the sheep and the goats according to what they did and didn't do.
Yes, Gods love is unconditional, but is God's forgiveness unconditional?
2Ch 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
This is an if/then statement. Whenever you have an if/then statement, a condition must be met in order for a certain result to happen. What is the condition? To humble ourselves and pray, and to turn from our wicked ways. The result: We will then have God's attention and He will hear from heaven and forgive our sin and heal our land.
In closing, I would like to say that this verse is speaking to all of us, no matter what side of the homosexuality issue we might choose to take. We should humble ourselves before God and we should also humble oursevles in regard to our relations with one another. Hate is never an option. All have sinned regardless of what type of sin that may be. If you're one who wants to compare sins, I think the prideful ones who believe they're better than someone else because they don't partake in certain types of sin will lose every time because, as I stated before, Jesus told the chief priests and the elders of the people that prostitutes would get into heaven before they would because of their pride.
"Jesus' supreme command is to love God and to love our neighbors as we love ourselves."
So let's stop comparing who's sin is worse because, as the apostle Paul said, we dare not compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves are not wise (2Co 10:12).
If we can agree on anything, we all agree that LOVE is the better way!
_________________ Troy
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