| Poster | Thread | TaKa
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Joined: 2003/4/17
Posts: 124
Louisiana
| | Are we saved by faith alone? Or are we saved by faith and works? | | In the following 3 passages, we are told that works cannot justify or save us:
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost.
Eph 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Notice how Ephesians says that we are not saved by works, but that we are still to do them. What is the purpose of works if not for salvation?
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
People will be drawn to God by the good works that we do. This is the purpose of works: to show the world that God loves them so that they will believe in Him.
Rom 4:2-3 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Abraham believed God and God counted him righteous because of his faith, but ...
Heb 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son.
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Abraham's faith was tested by his actions. He believed and did something about it.
Paul wrote to Timothy and also to the Hebrews that we should continue in performing good works:
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works.
James taught that works is the fruit (or evidence) of our faith:
Jam 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jam 2:17-18 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:22-24 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? ... Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Read again the illustration Jesus gives of the final judgement:
Mat 25:31-46 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
In the end, we will be judged according to what we did or didn't do!
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Troy
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|  2006/2/26 21:36 | Profile | roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: Are we saved by faith alone? Or are we saved by faith and works? | | Quote:
In the end, we will be judged according to what we did or didn't do!
This is a sobering truth, isn't it? Your scriptures do not contradict at all. If there is no evidence of Christ working in and through us, then Christ is not in us. If no deeds (fruit of the Spirit), there is no Spirit. If there is no evidence of life, there is death.
I have come to believe that there is a big difference between works done from faith and works done in order to earn salvation. The first is other-centered, the second is self-centered.
Have you ever had someone do something for you, not so much because they cared about you as much as they really wanted to earn a good standing with God, and they believed that doing something good for you was the path to "win" God, and guarantee eternal life?
(That explanation may be a bit simplistic, but hopefully it's a start)
Many mistakenly trust in "born-again" experiences as proof of salvation, but as time goes on, if there is never any evidence of it, it is not likely real.
Of course we should not judge prematurely because we can be mistaken. God works from the inside out. An oak tree grows strong roots long before it grows upward.
In the end it will be clear, and God himself will be the judge of our deeds - whether they be of faith or of the flesh.
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2006/2/26 21:52 | Profile | TaKa
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Joined: 2003/4/17
Posts: 124
Louisiana
| | Re: Are we saved by faith alone? Or are we saved by faith and works? | | By the way, the part of my post that you requoted: I got that from a Keith Green song called The Sheep and the Goats
Yep! BIG difference between works done from faith and works done in order to gain salvation. The first is called obedience, and the second one is called sacrifice. And to obey is better than sacrifice. (Also a Keith Green song)
Quote:
Many mistakenly trust in "born-again" experiences as proof of salvation, but as time goes on, if there is never any evidence of it, it is not likely real.
Right on! Ever read anything on true and false conversion? I know Charles Finney wrote about it, but there are many others if you look up the topic on amazon.com or christianbook.com
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Troy
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| | 2006/2/26 22:08 | Profile | Greenquality
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Posts: 189
mountains of Pa.
| | Re: | | Here is a matter of The western Thinking ,and Eastern Thinking,Faith and works go hand in hand..........The west believe's saved by faith alone.The eastern Thinking saved by faith which brings good work thur faith.In the Eastern mind set, to believe= to live thur faith, bring forth good fruit's or works,but keep in mind are good works are like menstral rages in the sight of God.THe Lord does good work,s thur us in our faith in Him.Those who hear the word of God and Do it! |
| | 2006/2/26 23:00 | Profile | Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.
| | Re: | | "In the end, we will be judged according to what we did or didn't do!"
I hope these are His works in us.
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
Again, this is what we will be judged by.
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
What Revelation?
Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.
Striving according to His working which workfare in us mightily.
His works in us will be what we are judged by, and how much we gave up self and seeking Christ do the works He does, Jhn 3:30 He must increase, but I [must] decrease. these are the works that will follow us. Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
Our Labors In Christ Jesus are the only works that show our Faith. Christ and His works in us are the only works that will follow us.
In Christ: Phillip
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Phillip
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| | 2006/2/27 0:07 | Profile | Graftedbranc
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Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619
| | Re: | | Quote:
"In the end, we will be judged according to what we did or didn't do!"
Acording to 1 Cor 3, our works will be judged on the basis of what they are made of. The Gold of the Divine nature, the Silver of Christ's redemption and the precious stones of the Spirit's transforming work, or the wood, hay and stubble of our own self effort of our own fallen nature.
The works which pass through the fire are works produced by the indwelling Spirit which flow from faith. It is works which are wrought by Christ within us.
And what is this work? In the context, it is the building up of the body of Christ. It is building on the foundation laid with certian materials.
Those who seek to build on Christ with wood hay and stubble, will see their work go up in flames. Those who build with the Divine materials will see their work pass through the fire.
The acceptable materials are the gold of the Divine Nature, the Silver of Christ's redemption and the precious stones of the Spirit's transforming work. Anything less than this is wood, hay and stubble and will not pass through the fire.
Paul in this passage is alluding to the Song of Songs where the Seeker's hair is plaited with Gold held in place by Silver studds. And a string of Jewells is placed around her neck as an adornment.
And this work of beautification is carried out by the lord's companions.
If we would be those who do God's work, we must ourselve be beautified, and we must beautify others by ministering the Gold of the Divine nature, the Silver of Christ's redemption, and the precious stones of the Spirit's transforming work.
These divine materials are also seen in Genesis. The Tree of Life is at the head of the river. And on the banks of the River are the Gold and the precious stones. This is the issue of the river.
And in Revelation 21, the New Jeruselam is made of pure Gold and adorned with the precious stones. And the river of the Water of Life flows down the center of it's Golden street.
Silver is not mentioned in Genesis or revelation. Why" because in Genesis, there was no fall and so the Silver of redemption was not needed. And in Revelation redemptions work is completed, and instead we have pearl.
God's work is to build His building. And it is to be built with the proper materials. What is the work the indwelling Christ is accomplishing from within us? "Upon this rock I will build my church".
The works which will pass through the fire are the works which build up the body of Christ and the works which utilize the Divine materials.
Graftedbranch |
| | 2006/2/27 8:16 | Profile | rookie
Member
Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN
| | Re: Are we saved by faith alone? Or are we saved by faith and works? | | Quote:
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,
All are subject to the law until one submits to the leading of the Holy Spirit which gives us the things of Christ. For by following the law it is weak because of the flesh. No one knows how to obey the law which is spiritual. It is only through obeying the Spirit that we are introduced to our Lord and Savior. The things of Christ are given to us by the Spirit so that we can do as we see the Father and Son do. This is what seperates the carnal from the spiritual. This is what salvation is.
The grace of God is meant to deliver us from our carnality. It is by obedience to the Spirit that we are introduced to the Father and the Son's ways of doing things in the kingdom of God.
In Christ
Jeff
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Jeff Marshalek
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| | 2006/2/27 11:34 | Profile | Christinyou
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| | Re: | | Quote:
""The grace of God is meant to deliver us from our carnality. It is by obedience to the Spirit that we are introduced to the Father and the Son's ways of doing things in the kingdom of God."
What is carnal to us? Not the Spirit of Christ that we know have, but the mind is carnal and that is why we are told to renew it to the Mind of Christ which we possess in our spirit. The Holy Spirit is the renewing Agent. He shall teach us all things that pertain to the Christ that is in us. What a wonderful blessing to be in Christ and learning from God the Holy Spirit whom God the Father has sent to us at the request of God His Son. WoW!
In Christ: Phillip
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Phillip
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| | 2006/2/27 16:33 | Profile | jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481
| | Re: | | hi, works has nothing to do with our salvation. it is not by works of righteousness which we have done but according to His mercy that He saves us.we are saved by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB and the word of our testimony... we start out as enemies of God and we are birthed from above.. we have nothing to toot our horn about.we are saved, being saved(sanctified)and shall be saved (glorified)by faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross. jimp |
| | 2006/2/27 16:56 | Profile | Christinyou
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Ca.
| | Re: | | 2 Corinthians 1:9-10 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us;
This is exactly what you are speaking of. We are saved by Grace and Christ being birthed in us. We are being saved by the Holy Spirit renewing our mind to the Mind of Christ. We will be saved in body on resurrection morning. There in Salvation is complete, Spirit, Soul and Body.
As always in all of Paul's teaching, on the heals of anything important, Paul always brings the in Christ position of the believer into the teaching.
2 Corinthians 1:20-21 For all the promises of God in Him are yea, and in Him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. Now He which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
In Christ, as always with Paul. It is the only part of Paul's teaching that always follows the revelation he was given direct by Jesus Christ Himself.
Colossians 1:23-28 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to His saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
Who gave Paul this mystery? Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Galatians 1:20 Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not.
Christ in us the Hope of Glory: Phillip
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| | 2006/2/27 20:54 | Profile |
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